Xperia 1 IV, 5 IV and 10 IV support

[mjtorn]

Samesies here, but I don’t want to resurrect the mummified corpse of some mysterious old Sony just because the less old phone is bogged down. Sure if I copy Whisperfish over there, I can live without the tens of thousands of pictures (or Bluetooth them over on-demand or something) but whatever.

Businesses need to focus on doing their thing and communication is easy to overlook, which doesn’t subtract from the point that it’s really meh to have to find about what works and what’s available basically by digging and asking around, instead of getting advance warnings.

Maybe that’s also the reason there isn’t a vibrant community port: people are awaiting Jolla to deliver, and Jolla probably doesn’t want to make early access more public because they want quality bug reports instead of countless complaints about the camera not working.

Then we wait, maybe it won’t be September and maybe we’ll get Android along with the rest of it instead of having to separately wait for it.

But a community build would be nice right about now

[wetab73]

@mjtorn

because they want quality bug reports instead of countless complaints about the camera not working.

If they didn’t make the camera work until today, chances are that it may never work, just like they never did anything (by themselves) about the 10 III’s echo, display banding, huge power consumption, support for camera2 api and all three lenses (heck, they didn’t even manage to ever make the camera color filters work), and many other things. And now they call the 10 III a “legacy device”

[mjtorn]

I’m confused. My work phone is a 10iii with sfos and there’s no echo, haven’t noticed anything about the display, it doesn’t consume more power than I’d like, though I don’t know what camera2 is or how I’d notice the three lenses. I’m happy af with my 10iii, and the Android apps I need work like a charm.

But the issue tracker leads us to believe that the remaining 10iv/10v issues are a Sony thing. Probably those won’t work on raw AOSP13 either.

Jolla’s hands may be tied on this one, so we shouldn’t place blame on them. The only thing I’m a bit dismayed about is them not giving advance warnings that there may be delays.

A sort of utopia would be if we could have a more open early access without the right to complain (= drown them in useless “boohoo the fingerprint doesn’t work” “we know…” reports) but there’s no reasonable expectation for anything like that.

[wetab73]

@mjtorn

Jolla’s hands may be tied on this one

Yeah, they surely are, as always. Let’s keep excusing everything, it is certainly so motivating and inspiring for them. As for the echo or display banding issues, or what Camera2 API is, or how the 10 III eats 3x more power than e.g. the XA2 Ultra (especially when idling) or than that same 10 III but with Android onboard, as well as other things you said you don’t know about, just please search the forum as it’s been discussed countless times by dozens of people, so there’s no use to repeat it.

And kindly notice that no one here expects them to release the 10 IV / V support before it’s ready for public use, quality- and stability-wise. No one has ever said so. We merely expect PROPER INFORMATION, i.e. if there is going to be a delay, then we merely expect to f****ng TELL US that there’s going to be a delay, so that we can properly plan our activities and simply know if e.g. we need to arrange some other device to use until the 10 IV / V support eventually comes out. There are just NO VALID ARGUMENTS against the OBVIOUS need of proper information.

No, it definitely ISN’T OK that the last time we’ve heard anything about the release of the 10 IV / V support was on May 20th, when it was said to come out within “1-2 months”. It certainly isn’t what one could call proper information flow, and it surely doesn’t have absolutely anything to do with “having hands tied” as you said. But it’s been like that since 2012.

[mjtorn]

@wetab73

Yeah, they surely are, as always. Let’s keep excusing everything, it is certainly so motivating and inspiring for them.

Have you ever dealt with a third-party whose dragging its feet?

It goes something like this:

• “You said you’d do this”
• “Yeah, we’ll get around to it”
• “Bro, it’s been a short eternity since we filed the issue”
• “You need us more than we need you, and our business needs something else now, so you’ll wait”
• “We got a forum full of antsy users”
• “Sorry, we’ve had other business concerns, we’ll get back to you”

This happens a lot and it always sucks, but ranting about it doesn’t help. You suck it up.

I’m sure a Jolla representative will eventually see this thread and maybe think about communications without hashing it any further.

Summers are for vacation for most people. Nothing ever moves fast during summers. That has to be sucked up as well as a fact of life.

As for the echo or display banding issues, or what Camera2 API is …

That tone sure escalated quickly!

My point is I don’t (“me personally”) care about any of that. I can go on just fine without concerning myself about things that either don’t affect me because my phone is just fine or don’t affect me because I DGAF.

It’s my personal 10plus that’s screwing me over to the point where I’d take any damned community build even without camera or fingerprints.

[WT.Sane]

@mjtorn

My work phone is a 10iii with sfos and there’s no echo, haven’t noticed anything about the display, it doesn’t consume more power than I’d like,

Same here. Complains seem to cumulate around people, not devices.

[Fellfrosch]

Well there was some information in between, which I unfortunately don’t find anymore. It was just a short sentence that there is good progress on 10 IV / V. Anyway, this was as well some time ago.

Even so @wetab73 is pointing it out quite harshly. I agree with his key message. Communication is and was quite often a weak point on Jolla.

I think many rants here in this forum could have been avoided with a proper communication. Most of us are quite patient and understanding and we know very well that Jolla is doing in the end an excellent job considering their small resources.

And I think most if not all would understand if they would say: “We have problems with this and that and therefore there will be a delay”. Or: “We are not allowed to do this, because there is a clause in the contract” etc.

But just saying NOTHING is not what I would call a good communication. Maybe all this speculation about delays is obsolete, because they are well on track. But even then, a short info in the community news, that everything is fine would be a clever move.

[wetab73]

@mjtorn

I’m sure a Jolla representative will eventually see this thread

It is not that someone “eventually sees this thread and maybe thinks about communications”. It is that if certain dates for releasing a product were publicly and officially announced, and it is not going to be met, then it should be announced, too. We’re not in a kindergarten here, it is a serious commercial company.

@mjtorn

Summers are for vacation for most people. Nothing ever moves fast during summers. That has to be sucked up as well as a fact of life.

Who on Earth was enforcing the release date in the middle of summer? Wasn’t it their own schedule? And if, for absolutely any reason, it can’t be met, all it takes is INFORMING about it all those who keep waiting for it.

As I said, it is solely about proper information (i.e. something that in case of Jolla has always been missing). Whether it is summer or winter or autumn has absolutely no importance here, because there is just no excuse for a single person not to spend half a minute on posting that e.g. there will be a delay of let’s say a month. It is about the most basic respect for those who keep waiting, nothing else.

@mjtorn

That tone sure escalated quickly!

What tone? You said you haven’t heard about numerous things discussed on this forum for years so I suggested to look for corresponding discussions as it makes no sense to repeat them. That you don’t care about any of them is your full right, but it certainly doesn’t make those issues vanish.

@WT.Sane

Same here. Complains seem to cumulate around people, not devices.

Expecting merely information, after two months of complete silence and when officially announced release time frame comes to an end, is what only a very specific type of person, i.e. your type, could call a complaint.

[mjtorn]

@wetab73

Who on Earth was forcing them to set the release date of their product in the middle of summer? It was solely them.

Yeah, it was a worrisome move for real.

But they have their business concerns as well, like shipping product. Maybe I’ve been on the other side of the fence often enough to sort of sympathize with what must be a bad situation for them, but I do agree that they shouldn’t be up for too many freebies wrt communications and keeping schedules.

Sometimes an optimistic announcement pays off, and who here knows how optimistic it actually was at the time? What if Sony promised to do good, and the announcement was based on that?

Maybe their interaction has always been such that Sony is untrustworthy, and you gotta multiply estimates by π to get there, and now Jolla decided to screw the community over? Or maybe this is the first time Sony royally messed up?

Fortunately I can now assume good faith and bad judgment.

And I’d be supremely wrathful, or at least more annoyed, if my 10plus were to break and I’d need a phone immediately, so there’s that.

no excuse for a single person not to spend half a minute on posting that they won’t meet the publicly announced release time frame

True there isn’t really an excuse, but there are probably many reasons.

Like not having the money for a dedicated community manager (do they have one? I suppose not) or being so hyper-focused on the day-to-day that posting updates is what you think of when you’ve just got home and need to rest for the next day. Hypothetically.

I guess it’s everyone’s own breaking point that determines how many freebies they’re giving a vendor before jumping ship.

Another “for me personally”… If these delays were solely due to them working on an AI assistant, I’d be seriously disappointed, because I haven’t yet heard a good case for owning one, or maybe even one existing in the world.

But this is the way of things. At the end of the day, if this was a horrid dealbreaker for me, I’d probably have an AOSP setup already and have left Jolla by the roadside miles ago.

Maybe someone who attends those community meetings could bring this up in a firm but polite manner. I don’t think this subthread here can serve much purpose anymore.

Plz leak installable images

[avhakola]

@wetab73

It is that if certain dates for releasing a product were publicly and officially announced, and it is not going to be met, then it should be announced, too.

Have they announced an official date already? I don’t remember seeing one. Just because on 20th of May Jolla said it would take 1-2 months, doesn’t mean the thing will be released on something between 30 and 60 days after the 20th of May. Unless Jolla communicates an actual official date, don’t read into it too literally.

[wetab73]

@avhakola

Just because on 20th of May Jolla said it would take 1-2 months, doesn’t mean the thing will be released on something between 30 and 60 days after the 20th of May.

So are you suggesting that what they say is actually worth nothing and should not be treated seriously, if not simply ignored? You clearly don’t value their credibility and reliability too much if we
assume that it is meant to be a serious company rather than some garage project that is ready when it is ready.

@mjtorn

Like not having the money for a dedicated community manager

So maybe the person who usually censors those talking about vaccines or Putin could also find additional 15 seconds to post a one-liner that there will be a delay in releasing their flagship product. I wouldn’t say that it is something unthinkable.

P.S. When at some point in my life I had to drum up business, I skipped vacations on several consecutive years. Different priorities, perhaps.

@mjtorn

maybe this is the first time Sony royally messed up?

Maybe. But how can we know if they don’t bother to tell? Again, lack of information flow.

[ThijssjihT]

Let’s be excellent to each other.

[SamFisher]

@Fellfrosch

I think many rants here in this forum could have been avoided with a proper communication. Most of us are quite patient and understanding and we know very well that Jolla is doing in the end an excellent job considering their small resources.

Proper communication? I would call it no communication. The last update on the Jolla blog was made February 2023. At this point you could almost assume that the company is going bankrupt.

Jolla needs to communicate their roadmap otherwise people will just move on to other phones and forget Jolla which is probably a customer that will never return.

Their silence is not a good sign at all. It would be a shame if they would disappear in a world where the only choice is Android or iPhone.

[oliviosu]

At Sony binaries site:
https://developer.sony.com/open-source/aosp-on-xperia-open-devices/downloads/software-binaries
new download (1 July) for Murray (Xperia 10 IV PDX225) and Zambezi (Xperia 10 V PDX235) are available, both are for Android 13. Maybe good sign that Sony patch something.

[mjtorn]

A bit strange, that, or what am I missing? There’s no changelog, and because neither Issues · sonyxperiadev/bug_tracker · GitHub nor the closed ones show anything relevant (unless I don’t understand what I’m seeing), are we in any way sure this has the remaining fixes needed for aosp13 and therefore sfos?

Anyone tried that out yet?

[wetab73]

They simply tweak things from time to time. There have been like 8 releases for Murray and 6 for Zambezi in total, which is like every 2 months or so on average. For Nile (XA2) there have been like 20 releases ranging from Android 8 to 11. So I wouldn’t assume that this time it is anything special. They’ve just released the 10 VI so they probably decided to polish a few things in the models it replaces before they add the VI series to their Open Devices program and focus on them…

[rainemak]

Xperia 10 IV and Xperia 10 V status update - w29

Let us give you an update on the major recent achievements. We have been tackling issues together with the Open Device Program from Sony’s AOSP and ODM blobs and from Sailfish OS adaptation.

• Long term support: Sony intends to focus on supporting Android 14 AOSP base for the Xperia 10 IV and Xperia 10 V and for sustainable Sailfish OS delivery & future releases we would prefer to start right off with Android 14 base (rather than 13). This has been a major work for us and in good collaboration with Sony it now seems feasible.

• Last week @mal traced down suspending issue of the Xperia 10 IV and Xperia 10 V to missing kernel patches. The cherry-picked fixes got quickly integrated to Sony’s AOSP. This will greatly improve battery consumption on all Xperia 10 IV and 10 V AOSP builds as well. While the battery consumption is still not the most optimal, the suspend issue itself caused so heavy battery draining that the device would have been unusable as a daily driver.

• Sailors provided very detailed analysis for Sony’s Open Device Program for the Xperia 10 V battery capacity reporting issue. The change request is there at Open Device Program side requiring changes to Sony’s ODM blobs + small changes to device repositories. Processing may take a bit of time. This was a great achievement together with the Open Device Program. Even without this fix and having suspend issue fixed, you could use Xperia 10 V quite well given that you have a full charged battery each morning.

Major known-issues

• There are major issues with camera.
• Headphone audio routing is not working always correctly.
• Both Sony Xperia 10 IV and Xperia 10 V are missing hardware codecs.
• Fingerprint is failing on Xperia 10 V.

Xperia 10 IV and Xperia 10 V will be Sailfish 4.6 based as communicated earlier. Along with Xperia 10 IV and Xperia 10 V support update we are targeting to update the Android WebView to version 119 for the AppSupport.

I must say that I could soon use Xperia 10 IV and Xperia 10 V as my daily driver and live with these known issues. We will update further during this week once we known that Android 14 base is good.

Yours,
Raine

[filip.k]

Thanks, Raine. I’m looking forward!

[wetab73]

Thank you for the update. As they say, better late than never

Well… I wish I knew this a few weeks earlier, as I probably wouldn’t have bought the 10 V at this point (if at all). Instead, I would have bought another 10 III, which also still has its problems but not as severe as your information seems to suggest in case of the 10 V. Sadly, it looks more like an early alpha stage at this point, so it may take months (if not years) to make it stable and suitable for serious use.

[jojomen]

Thank you for the update! I’m happy to hear that you are working with the Sony program on these devices and wish you success with the port(s).