Very buggy OS on Xperia 10 II

There’s one thought that comes to mind when reading this and other posts of the like:
Expectation is proportional the possibility of frustration

When I first decided to buy a Sailfish X license I knew this was a ‘bricolage’ project. Having flashed a few different custom ROMs before, and fiddling around with TWRP. Sailfish X, despite the marketing, was and is a ‘hobbyist OS’. 50 euros in license fee (paid for usage rights of certain apps, not for the hardware adaption layer, mind you) is nowhere near the figure development would cost.

From my point of view it’s a problem to judge SFOS for Sony devices to be anything else than that. Sailfish X is - putting it a bit pointedly - a custom ROM developed by a small and smart company. But without the big vendors (Broadcom, Sony, hardware manufacturers ) it’ll remain just that: a custom ROM.

Corporate customers are a different story: OMP (was that the name?) will most probably have access to all hardware components, allowing for a proper hardware adaptation for Aurora OS.

I don’t know where this quote comes from but I like it very much!

You make a very good point, and you are clearly technically astute to recognise Sailfish for what it currently is - a hobby OS.

Part of the issue is that people do buy Sailfish X, not unreasonably expecting it to be a properly working product and are then disappointed because it clearly isn’t and Jolla either don’t fix problems at all, or take months or years to fix them (the reasons - lack of resources, ‘borrowed’ technology beyond their control, no money, etc - behind why this may be are, and should be, irrelevant to the paying customer). So there is inevitably an expectations mismatch, disappointment, frustration and the inevitable reputation for poor quality. This is what multiple posters have highlighted and what Jolla needs to address.

Incidentally, the amount of money, the price, paid for the product (known as ‘consideration’ in legal terminology) is actually irrelevant and need not be related in any way to the cost of the product. The important fact is that money (consideration) changed hands in exchange for the product. A bargain was made - money for a product which then legally has to be fit for purpose, or conform to a specification, or match a sample - whichever the contract of sale and consumer law stipulates.

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But isn’t this exactly the reason for the ‘free’ version of the hardware adaptation of the Sailfish X devices? They don’t build those adaptations for free, I’d say it would cost more than just a few weeks of a few developers. You then, or any new user, could test their device with the free version and therefore know if they want to add the license for the Android layer, the predictive text & MFE?

Perhaps, but I do not claim to know the reason for Jolla offering the ‘free’ version. It may be to support their committent to open source, it may be because all the development work has recently been paid for by their Russian corporate clients so the incremental costs of providing it ‘free’ to others is sustainable, or it may be, as you say, to entice people to buy the full license (although I honestly can’t understand how this would generate any real income).

Personally I think that, by offering it ‘free’ to the community, they get free testing on their new releases in return before they move the new release or base on to their corporate clients. The amount they charge for the full license is so small it probably only covers their own licence costs for using ActiveSync, Aliendalvik and whomever supplies the predictive text function.

And of course you are right, anyone can test the free version before deciding to buy a license - as long as they are prepared to spend a few hundred euros on a compatible Sony phone to allow them to do this.

But my point was slightly different, and maybe not very well put in this thread above. So, me being me, I’ll offer another example.

Say, as a newbie to Sailfish, I buy my Xperia 10 ii and flash the free version. Ok, there are a few issues after using it for a week or so but it seems OK - and of course any serious bugs I (or others) find I would expect to be fixed within a reasonable timescale according to the severity of the bug (remember, in this example I’m new to all this and I don’t know that Jolla don’t do hot fixes and can take months or even years to fix quite serious issues).

But all is good so far - my imap email synchronises without problems and I can browse the web on most websites, though quite a few don’t seem to work if they have cookie dialogs (but I’m sure Jolla will fix this in a matter of days as this is quite a serious restriction).

I know I need Exchange email on my phone for my work email and also Whatsapp, because that’s how my work teams communicate with each other - so I will be dependant on these functions. But that is OK because Sailfish X provides both Exchange and Android support. I can’t test these functions because I don’t have a license yet, but Jolla have been providing Exchange and Android support for some years now so it must be OK.

I take the plunge and buy the license. Its not much money, only 50 euros (so I’ve now spent around 300 euros for my Xperia 10 ii - typical price in the UK, others may get better or worse deals - and 50 euros for the Sailfish X license).

I am disappointed and frustrated. Exchange email doesn’t always synchronise, sometime it errors, sometimes it stops completely and sometimes it gets stuck for hours on end just “Updating” with the rotating circle. I have to re-boot my phone to get it working again. Some of my email folders are missing and notifications for new email often arrive hours after the email has actually arrived itself. Events in my Exchange calendar are always an hour (late) out and all day events seem to always having an extra day tacked on to the end of the number of days I entered. Android support can’t use bluetooth and keeps losing its connection with the network - so I don’t even know if I’ve got a Whatsapp message from my boss until I restart the network subsystem (I have to go into settings, find Sailfish Utilities and do it from there - what’s that all about? I’ve never had to do this type of thing with any other phone …). Also I’ve found that sometimes there is no audio in calls, or it disappears half way through a call, or its so quiet on my bluetooth headphones I can’t actually hear anything properly. I get some really good help and advice from something called the ‘SFOS forum’ but am shocked that some of these problems have been known about for months or even years and still not fixed. I feel I’ve wasted 350 euros on an unusable product.

Returning from my above example, I think I have good evidence that the Exchange sync problem has nothing to do with Jolla’s implementation of Activesync (i.e. a paid component) which probably works just fine, but actually is more likely to be a fault in how the network stack (‘free’ component) handles the changeover or fallback from one network protocol to another (i.e. mobile to wifi, wifi to mobile, 4G to 2G, 2G to 4G) when there is a dropout of the ‘in-use’ network (and I believe Jolla, in the form of flypig, believes this also may be the reason). The same may be true for the connectivity issues in Android as well for all I know.

Anyway, my point is that I have bought a paid product (the Sailfish X licence), which I could not test before I bought it, and it doesn’t work properly or deliver reliably the functionality on which it was sold to me and on which basis I purchased it. If this was any other consumer product - a laptop, a toaster, an iPhone, would you not be justified in being dissatisfied too?

That, in a nutshell, was my point.

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This is why Sailfish will not grow into a useful alternative to Google and Apple, which I regret: too much of a hobby-system. And it looks like Jolla has abandoned the idea of making something suitable for everyone. This is also characteristic for a community driven OS without a steadfast business in the background. After the tablet debacle Jolla needed money and went to Russia. I wished they had coöperated with Fairphone, working on device and system that is future proof, asking for EU funding. Then it would really be European.
I use Sailfish for 7 years as daily phone with pleasure and with pain and the most pleasure comes from some nice apps made by community developers. The pain comes from malfunctions and missing features (browser, mail, wifi disturbances, lack of sharing possibilities, video calls,GPS, etc.)
I use Sailfish because I don’t want to support Google and Apple and because I like the elegance and UI of Sailfish. I can do that because I am retired. I know no other personmwho uses it. Lately I gave my XA2 to an aquaintance, a linux man, to try it. He bought an iphone for daily use and keeps the XA2 to play with. Typical.
Who is Jolla now, we don’t know. Who is the CEO, what is the relation with AuroraOS, we don’t know. Yet I still hope it will survive and improve.


That’s me! :laughing:

I very much share this opinion, almost to the point.

My main issue is I do not trust my phone to work when I need it most. It feels like a liability in my pocket, if I am lost or am late for an appointment I cannot trust GPS to get a lock in and give me directions. If I need to make/receive an important call the phone will crash or reset. These two keep on happening when I need the phone most. At this point I am looking at getting another phone and keeping SFOS as a hobby phone on the side. Its too frustrating.

I completly agree with Kea and I have said it elsewhere before. SFOS + Fairphone for an EU non-google phone with fixed/ known & upgradeable hardware that is repairable is/was the only way SFOS would actually be able to expand and grow. Its a solid visible base. People who use FP dont want the leading edge hardware and would probably be more convinceable to try SFOS.
Fixed hardware should allow alot more bug fixes to happen, the xperia line was a good idea but not sustainable.

What is happing now is not working.


Fully agree - however, since SFOS 3 I am not using my iPhone X anymore. For me, there is no point in using the iPhone anymore since beside all the obvious deficiencies of SFOS it works quite well, better than iOS (for me; due to the limited or rather none-existent offline-capabilities of the iPhone that several times made me missing appointments. I cannot trust the iPhone anymore).

Maybe I have adapted to the deficiencies of SFOS and am unable (unwilling) to adapt to the deficiencies of iOS.

SFOS 4.1 on the Xperia 10 ii is the best SFOS so far - but there is a lot to improve and all these bugs should be eliminated. Jolla might be to small to do all the bugfixing and the necessary further development of SFOS to a degree that suits most users - which is a pity because I still believe in the potential of SFOS.

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I wonder about the GPS lock-in problems. I just travelled France, Benelux and Germany fully relying on Puremaps and never had problems with GPS lock-in. In fact, it always only took a couple of seconds (or even no noticable time).

These mixed experiences with SFOS make me wonder - and you are right, changing HW platform with every major release complicates bug fixing. But Jolla must also adapt to developments in HW.

I think the GPS lock time has much to do with whether there’s (good) AGPS data for your area. Since there seems to be none for the Americas, GPS lock can take quite a while. I would assume (without any proof) similar issues in Africa and much of Asia as well. I really wish I could assist the GPS myself when I know where I am.

OTOH, the fact that I’m not relying on network availability for both positioning and data, I can navigate a lot further off the beaten path than my wife’s iPhone – as long as I don’t turn off the GPS in the middle of the trip and lose my fix. Apple’s assumption of always-available cell service can be a liability at times.

I think that’s a good assumption. I’m in the UK and have downloaded all of the new location files that I could for all the countries. On my XA2, on 4.1, if I’m in a town or other populated area I get a ‘near fix’ quite quickly within a minute. This is presumably the location of the nearest cell tower? Often this is half a mile away or so, so fairly useless for traffic navigation as it shows me in the right part of the right town, but on the wrong place on the wrong road. Getting the actual fix usually still takes another 10 to 20 minutes. However if I’m in the country, with limited cell coverage, I get no near fix at all and the phone can take up to an hour to get any location fix at all, even outside with a cloudless sky.

I think the main issue with XA2 GPS is the provided driver (AOSP binary blob), in different xperia models running the same version of SFOS GPS works as expected. I guess to be fixed will require the involvement of third party developers which very likely cannot be done, besides might not be a simple fix either.

Anyway, that’s my speculation and the experience using it is rather poor, and I am not going to comment further ;-(

ps clouds should not affect GPS signal strength.

Perhaps this is another good reason for Jolla changing direction away from Sony towards a hardware partnership (e.g. Fairphone) that might be more controllable and sustainable without having to re-engineer it all again for every new and different Sony phone that comes along. Access to the lower level hardware adaptations seems a must to ensure that stuff works and is reliable - camera, GPS, network and so on.

I said that many years now, but I am not Jolla neither Fairphone, there was an announcement in a WMC some many years ago with FP2 for collaboration, but was never materialised to an official port. The reality, without knowing details, is that both companies are fragile and afraid such collaboration (see limited resources?). Also do not take for granted FP drivers will be free of bugs either.

Agreed. What caught my eye though is that Fairphones are now selling through Virgin Media (Fairphone Phone Deals | Contract Deals | Virgin Media) - a ready made international distribution network.

So my thoughts were idly turning to the idea (just in my head of course, not a reality!) of a Fairphone pre-flashed with Sailfish, a locked bootloader (so more secure), properly engineered in terms of hardware adaptation with a proper bug-fixing strategy and a long term vision based on one phone only for an extended period of time that could be upgraded with better cameras and a faster this or that. This would obviate the need to cope with a brand new and completely different phone every two years that has to be more or less re-engineered from scratch and the huge multitude of seemingly unsolvable issues this brings. Better for the environment too.

Oh, what could be …

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check this sailfish-os-for-fairphone-3 not much interest unfortunately, it also seems that community prefers sony.

I will be bold here and say our community is wrong (and get corrected as to why but thats ok :slight_smile: ). Fairphone 3+ will be around for many more years in a stable configuration allowing for consistent bug fixes. New modules can be isolated and supported in time.
Chipset is snapdragon 632 so very similar to the Xperia 10 so not starting from total scratch there also.
Perhaps it is more a chicken and the egg problem here. All we get is Sony official ports so that what we like.

Would petitioning Jolla to support fairphone 3+, would it fall on deaf ears or how much of the active paying userbase be needed to get a reply ?

Also I think we are off topic here also…and high jacked the thread.


I gave a try for the paid license of Sailfish on my Xperia 10 II and i must admit that it’s such a desapointment that i had to reflash Android. I had most of the bug commented in this thread and some are really a pain in the arse so i totally agree with the owner of this post. Now waiting an update to clean all this bugs off and i’ll be back on Sailfish OS for sure !

AFAIR these are nearly the same people that had released the Hamattan version with nearly endless list of bugs … then were forced to fix them and actually did with 1.2

So the mentality in former Nokia seems to be still former Nokia - that bugs are quite OK
I mean there is a huge problem with this mentality and they really have to sit down and fix bugs, because with every newer version it is getting worse for me. On the daily phone I still have
And if I could I would put the same version on the 10 II which cost more than 350,- and is laying around unused, because of the bugs there.

I fully support you in your claims and statements



The reason why I started the thread was to know if it was just really me or whether other people were experiencing the same things, and I am sad to see that I am not the only one. Some of the bugs I encounter every day completely break the phone and as such I’m struggling to keep it as my daily driver. I know that Jolla, like other people have said, is a small company, but I really don’t understand why bugs can just be accepted because of this, I don’t get why it is seen as wrong to give an honest opinion of one’s experience with SFOS or expect that regardless of the size of the company a product can work. Again, I really really REALLY want this to work, in the same way I stayed with my BB 10 for years hoping that maybe Blackberry would pick the project up again. When SFOS works, it’s so good! I enjoy using it so much more than Android or iOS. If I really didn’t care, I would’ve switched already, as someone previously suggested, but this needs to work or else I don’t know which other OS could compete against Apple/Google. As Steve said before, you can’t pitch something as the alternative to the duopoly but at the same time expect that it is okay for crucial parts of the OS to not work well.

About the holidays I mentioned before, I didn’t mean to say that everyone should be working 24/7 without rest, I was saying that it is not normal for a company to just stop and drop everything, without any releases to a paid software (regardless of whether that is for licensing, development costs, etc. I don’t buy software with a breakdown of where that money is going to, I buy a piece of software because I want to use it and thus expect it to work with my device, especially if I bought said device because it was announced that at some point it would be compatible). There are ways for keeping a company active while parts of it are on holiday (maybe that’s the case here, but then why haven’t we had any updates in weeks??).

Again, I really like SFOS, it’s just so hard to use sometimes! I’m starting to trust the OS less and less, as I’ve been in business calls where audio just crashed and I had to use someone else’s phone because I didn’t have enough time to restart, among other bad experiences that make me feel like it’s not ready yet. As some have suggested, maybe changing Sony for Fairphone or at least trying to collaborate on a deeper level with Sony so as to access all the low-level stuff which would make development easier and better? I don’t know, I’m not here to tell how to direct a big company like Jolla is, but maybe a roadmap or more frequent bug fixes would be nice.