Very buggy OS on Xperia 10 II

I guess some people may get a little defensive if the overall tone a post seem to generalize a lot and their experiences are completely different.

Speaking as someone who owned 6 different SFOS devices so far I would consider my Xperia 10 II to be the best Sailfish device yet and my primary phone for quite a while now.
But I have to admit, I would have replaced the phone withing a few days should it ever have turned out to be as bad as some posts seem to imply.

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I guess a lot will depend upon what parts of Sailfish you actually use. So if you don’t use Exchange to synchronise with Office365 then you are not going to experience a whole load of extremely frustrating (especially if you rely on it for your work) issues with the email and calendar. Similarly if you don’t use Android then the fact that it loses network connectivity regularly and you can’t use bluetooth won’t matter to you at all. Some people don’t even use phones to make old fashioned phone calls these days - they use SIP or Facebook Messenger calls, or Whatsapp, or whatever - so if you’re one of those users then you won’t notice that making calls the old fashioned way sometimes doesn’t work, or you can’t hear, or you get cut off and so on.

The point here is one of respect - just because a user (any user) doesn’t experience some of the problems that other users do experience doesn’t mean that those problems don’t exist or are automatically down to ‘your hardware device is faulty’ rather than them being a problem with Sailfish, or Android, or …

And equally just because a lot of users are experiencing these problems doesn’t mean that a lot of others are not enjoying ‘trouble free motoring’ with Sailfish either.

Everybody should respect each other’s views and recognise that, actually, we’re all here for a common purpose - to try and make things better. And you do that by having open, honest and truthful conversations about both the good points and the bad points - not by denying another person’s experiences. Would you agree?

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I’m sorry if the post’s tone was too aggressive, my objective wasn’t to insult or generalise, but rather to share my experience, which might be different from yours, inquire whether others are experiencing the same and if so, why things are the way they are.

I’m not flashing Android back into the phone because I’d rather live with these quirks than go back to Google, but it’d be great to have a phone that works really well too! I know for a fact that it isn’t due to the hardware because I’ve used this phone for many months with 0 issues on Android, so it has to be software and the good thing with software is that it can be gradually fixed! I’ll just be patient, but it’d be great if Jolla could also speed up the release of bug fixes a bit too.

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I agree with your past few posts, you seem to be able to express my frustrations quite lucidly also. Both of us have expressed our frustrations constructively but there feels like resistance or something else coming through the replies. This is such a small community of users I would expect different attitudes.

I find myself more and more recently asking myself, what is keeping me to stick with it, why should I be this frustrated while everybody elses devices is care free it seems ( other SF, Android, iOS). I don’t have a positive outlook. I have no idea about what the vision is or where this is going for SFOS in general. I know this is a shared frustration across everybody and it is just accepted.

Ill finish on a positive, Android app compatibility has been greatly improved to such an extent over the past few releases that is really an amazing job. I just wish this could have been consolidated into a more stable platform across all the user test cases you mentioned (actually I finished on a negative dam). This should be possible to do or am I naive ?

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I agree with you too. I don’t understand why it’s my phone that doesn’t work while some people seem to have very clean experiences with SFOS!
To be fair, though, ever since I flashed SFOS I’ve noticed I use my phone way less. It could be either because it’s not engineered for maximum retention or because the glitches don’t make me want to use my phone :joy:

Well, I do use Android, funnily to work around other deficiencies with SFOS, such as something as basic as a browser being virtually unusable with many sites. These things, together with the lack of BT support on AD are well documented, though.

I have to admit I may be using 3G calls less than many others (knowing who’s behind bringing SIP to SFOS may provide a clue :grinning:) but the fact I haven’t experienced this kind of issues even once was the reason why I mentioned the possibility there may be something else involved than a general issue with with this part of SFOS.

At no point were any of my posts meant to be disrespectful or an attempt to play down issues someone may have experienced with the X10II.

To be frank, why some people have a completely awful time with their X10 ii, (flickering screens, no wifi, constant crashes, etc) whilst others, presumably with the same 4.X.X software release, don’t seems really odd to me - there should at least be some consistency of problems between identical hardware and identical software. What is so different that some users have a really great experience whilst others have an awful one?

I often wonder this myself. I really don’t want people to think I’m exaggerating or lying about these things. I should maybe record them to document them a bit more rather than just say “this crashes often”, “this doesn’t work”, but I’ve been so busy recently that I haven’t been able to. Is there an email address that I could send logs or videos to Jolla so that they can take a more precise look?

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This is probably the most important question to ask.

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Considering the complexity of a Smartphone including all software layers, we most likly have to live with the fact that there will be always bugs - with all systems.

This does not mean that we should accept bugs - to the contrary, ideally all bugs should be resolved. In realtity, debugging competes with developing new features or supporting new hardware.

So it comes down to a matter of priorities. Here, community can (and to a certain extend does) help. Since some bugs are affecting everyday use of the phone more severly while other bugs only affect a very limited number of user’s or are not even bugs but simply missing features, we might help Jolla with clearly announcing how serious a bug affects everyday use.

Many bugs mentioned in this thread affect everyday use but not all users are encountering these bugs. Accordingly, in a second step help Jolla with indicating whether or not we are affected by a bug. In part, this is done by “upvoting” a bug report but doing a bit more like indicating our subjective “score” of a bug in an explicit comment might help Jolla with adjusting priorities in bugfixing.

Just some thoughts that came into my mind - please apologize for being a bit off topic and only stating what most of you will have considered anyway

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Maybe the ones who have a great experience used early Sailfish X versions on the Xperia X or Xperia XA2, so the quirks on the Xperia 10 II look like small things to them.

I don’t think anybody does (or, at least I hope they don’t).

What seems clear beyond doubt is that people do have very different experiences with what seems to be the same combination of hardware and software. There will obviously be some easily explainable differences leading to frustration (e.g. as I said above - those who use ‘broken’ features versus those who don’t) but this does not explain why there are such huge differences in the basic (free part) of Sailfish, especially on the X10 ii (e.g. some people have flickering screens, others don’t - but all of them seem to work fine when the original Android installation was present).

I had thought it might be due to different variants of the same phone - in my collection of phones I have two Blackberry Z10s and they are completely different internally. One, the European variant has a snapdragon processor, whilst the other, an Indian variant has a different motherboard and a Texas OMAP processor. They’re both Z10s and they look and work identically (aside from different GSM and LTE bands) and yet they are not. But then I thought that Sailfish sits on top of Sony binaries, so shouldn’t these present the same interface to the hardware for Sailfish regardless of the actual hardware variations?

Whatever the reason, if I was Jolla I would be concentrating my resources here - learning about why these differences exist may help to solve them.

Its possible yes, they become more ‘battle hardened’ as time goes on - I see what you mean. I have an XA2 and that has plenty of stuff that is broken and doesn’t work properly - but my ‘view’ is that its probably more sorted than an X10 ii at this stage - so I am definitely not going to take the risk and change to a 10ii until I am much more confident about the new phone’s stability and reliability.

The problem is of course, by that time I probably won’t be able to get a 10ii and we’ll have moved on to a 10 iii or whatever and the whole buggy cycle will probably start again …

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Yes, the XA2 NOW is the most stable Sailfish phone I have ever used. Not so in the early days though.

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Actually Sony have just announced that the Xperia 10 iv is expected go on sale in May 2022 - less than a year away - and Sailfish is still in the very early stages on the Xperia 10 ii in my view. I think they’re going to have to skip a few models …

realistically, jolla cannot start porting on new models until sony aosp binaries become available, typically that’s close to a year. that then leaves less than a year that model is available in markets for users.

in that respect fairphone models with a 5-year lifecycle would be a better option.

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Speaking of Android binaries. It would be interesting to know which version of Android the phone had before flashing SFOS. I did upgrade to latest v11, however I did not buy the license and I am not sure if this has something to do with the problems.
It is only that I am pissed because the 10 II is not cheap hardware and now it is laying around unused.

I also updated to Android 11 before installing SFOS on the Xperia 10 ii - and I am one of those having only very little problems (barely any in couple of weeks). So Android 11 can be ruled as causing the trouble.

I had Android 11 too, so Im not sure if that is causing the trouble. I could try to flash it with Android 10 instead

My idea is hardware and software from a single source. It worked on Nokia, Blackberry, Apple and so on in the early days. It also worked at Jolla with the J1 and the JC. During this time, Sailfish has grown and there were updates and fixes every few months. There were fewer bugs as we see them today. Since Jolla started using third-party hardware, the quality has suffered. My Jolla 1 started with Sailfish 2.0 and ended recently. The J1 and the XA2 ran several versions in parallel with the same usage and apps, and I was able to compare the effects of the updates directly. The XA2 showed bugs that were not visible on the J1. I don’t consider Android support in the comparison.

However, in the beginning I could live well with a long update interval because there were fewer impairments. Since the XA2, I’ve been annoyed about the long waiting times until bugs are fixed. Some have already manifested and Jolla did not fix them or even ignored them. The reason for this could also be the outdated QT that Jolla uses. Only 1 example, I need e.g. Cal- / CardDav support and with every update I hoped that a functioning support would not break again. Months with a badly functioning calendar until another fix is ​​no fun. What I mean is, with the Sony devices, the long update cycles only cause trouble for me and the time for fixes between the EA and the “final” versions is too short. It has to be an ongoing process. Besides, not all bugs are fixed, so it can take more months until a bug is fixed. A lot more has to be done here with hotfixes. My patience is now quite exhausted and my consequence is not to install any more updates on the XA2. It stayed with SF 3.4, which works best for me. I don’t want any new adventures and I’ve also given up GPS.

In the meantime I am experimenting with Ubuntu Touch and the Pinephone (with different OS) and see more progress and the will to fix bugs immediately. Nobody has to stay with Jolla, there are alternatives. In a very short time they could completely replace Sailfish for me. Mobian and its offshoots are suitable for everyday use with a few restrictions. If you really want to have Android in addition, you can use Anbox. It’s not elegant, but it is functional.

Which is why I mentioned bad hardware earlier in the thread, my first J1 tended to crash due to a defective RAM and booted itself several times on bad days. I then bought a second one and it has been running for years without problems.

My 5 cents and I am not a frustrated user. I am only describing my résumé from the last few years. Jolla doesn’t make it easy to be loved for everyone. I no longer see it as a fully-fledged option to defend against Google and Apple. For this, the quality has to increase.

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