Very buggy OS on Xperia 10 II

Hi! I have been using SFOS on this phone for about a month now, when the licence went on sale, and I am surprised by how buggy it is. I sometimes cannot believe that this OS has been in development for this long, given that I never had to restart my BB10 daily and I find myself restarting the Xperia 10 II with SFOS (worked fine with Android) sometimes twice or thrice a day. It’s either because the system just decides to glitch and the entire interface flickers, the speaker on the call stops working (a phone that can’t make phone calls well??), or Android apps just crash, among other issues.

I really don’t want this to sound like a rant, but it’s a paid piece of software that hasn’t received any updates in weeks, while everyone is on holiday. Now I understand that everyone deserves some holidays, but if an OS is in this state, how can someone serious that works in business or that might need a working phone in an emergency take the risk of using this OS if it can fail at any given moment, when, as I said before, even BB10, which hasn’t been updated in ages, is more stable?

I was quite happy for the release of SFOS on Xperia 10 II, but now I’m not sure how it will go, seeing there are serious issues on the XA that have not been solved yet, together with the lacklustre browser and other things. I really want to support SFOS, but at the same time, I struggle to recommend it to friends in this current state. We are not talking about a young new startup, we are talking about a company that has been around for many years now.

Again, sorry if it sounds like a rant, I hope I didn’t offend anyone, but please Jolla, get your act together!

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Some of the issues may not to be a general problem with SFOS or the Xperia 10II but rather a fault with your specific device.

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I didn’t have any problems with Android. I used this device for several months before flashing it twice with SFOS, so I can only guess these issues have happened with SFOS, not due to the device itself. Look around the forum, these issues have been reported by other users too.

Not that you describe your issues in detail; but i can safely say i have none of them.
I think the number of times i have restarted my 10 II to resolve an issue is like twice total.

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Yeah, I haven’t had any problems like that either. Sounds pretty weird honestly.

My current “uptime” value is 21 days so, while I don’t doubt this issues may occur with individual devices, they seem not to be universal.
I also don’t doubt this fact may be of little value to you if your phone is one of the few/many affected.
Have you tried reflashing the device?

I do have a severe issue with the 10 II: audio just does not work and pulseaudio just does crash. The only error message I get is that `/data/vendor/audio/cirrus_sony.cal could not be found. So I guess something with the initial calibration does not work and leads to some memory not being initialized which in turn makes pulseaudio crash with a segfault.
It would be great if someone who has audio working on this device could share calibration data (the file above) with me so that I may check whether it is just the calibration process that does not work or something else…
Thanks in advance!

cirrus_sony.cal

Thank you very much for sharing! Unfortunately, I am experiencing the same problem as before, just the error message is gone… Will keep you posted!

I don’t have an Xperia 10 but I’ve had three Sailfish devices. My current Xperia XA2, Xperia X and a Jolla C. All of them have been very stable requiring very few restarts. In fact I’ve found the OS to very particularly stable.

Are you using Android support? If so is it possible that one of the Android apps is causing some sort of conflict or perhaps even an app from somewhere like Storema?

It reminds me of my first few months with the XA2 Dual when the XA2 was supported by Sailfish X. It took 1.5 years until my device ran almost problem-free. I have therefore decided not to install Sailfish X 4.xx or to update to any new version. Each new version brought new surprises and with SFOS no lossless downgrade to the previous version is allowed. Btw, GPS problems have not yet been solved satisfactorily. That still annoys me today.

Apparently there are devices with individual problems that Jolla cannot fix. The cause can be technical changes in the board layout or a change to a component supplier at Sony or simply micro-production defects at the lower end of the component tolerance. Maybe the device just comes from a bad production series or Jolla doesn’t fully understand the SOC technology and drivers. Who knows? I am assuming that your device was flashed with no errors.

If you have such a device, there is no fun and joy. In addition, updates and fixes at Jolla take months and you have to live with malfunctions for an eternity and maybe forever. Patience will be very strained and the Jolla community has already lost some members because of this.

I also came from BBxx when I switched to the Jolla 1. Sailfish as such was a very stable operating system and ran for years on my Jolla 1. At that time Jolla was still producing its own hardware. Since Sony hardware has been used, the quality and stability have suffered. As long as Jolla doesn’t build its own hardware, it won’t get any better. With every new Sony the problems start again. The posts in the old and new forum show that. Either you have a lot of patience or try another device.

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Maybe it’s general problem with Xperia 10. I have third XA2 (first lost, second stolen) and I don’t need anything else. I see progress, without fireworks, but system is better after each update.

For future Jolla should think about technologic independence or diversification. US-China war should give them lesson. One political decision can cut company from hardware, software and markets.

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I can report similar experience. Somtimes when I try to make a call I get “no network” but as I can see it is connected and a second later I recieve a call without problem. Directly after hanging up I try to call again with the same result. After refreshing the connection in settings, it works again but occasionally I see that the screen just flickers and nothing happens when I try to make call. Sometimes this has happens when shifting from listen to a podcast to make call. To cure it a restart is needed. This behaviour is completely new to me coming directly from Xperia X as a daily driver.

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@dnordanstig I have had similar issues, too. They seem related to the loss of 4G connectivity. How do you “refresh the connection” in settings to make it go away exactly? I played around a bit but it only disappeared at random after a few restarts. :man_shrugging:

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Switching to airplane mode and back may be the quickest way to make the cell modem re-register with the network. I don’t know if this will help in this particular case but it’s probably worth a try.

Thanks for the suggestion; this is one of the things I have already tried (in addition to restarting networking under Utilities, deactivating and reactivating the card in SIM cards, and playing around with the Network Mode setting in Mobile network), but the phone kept re-registering with 3G. Even restarting the phone didn’t help (until one time when it randomly worked).

I will make more experiments when (if) this happens again, but for the moment as long as my 4G works I’m not going to fiddle around, since I am using the phone as a daily driver.

I have 4.1 on an XA2. The OS itself overall is quite stable - I don’t think I’ve ever had a crash which is so bad it requires a complete restart. What does happen to me is that individual bits of the OS just stop working after a while (mail synchronisation, audio in calls, bluetooth connection to car, mobile connectivity failing in Android, GPS fixes, etc) and these do require re-boots of the OS to get working again. So its sort of a graceful degradation really - I have to restart the phone when enough has stopped working for it to become a real inconvenience. So from that point of view, yes I agree, it is still too buggy and a concerted effort needs to be put in to fix these relatively basic and core problems. I have got a suspicion (and nothing more) that a lot of the ‘connectivity related’ issues (e.g. mail synchronisation, android mobile data, etc) have something to do with SFOS not handling the changeover of networks (i.e. mobile to wifi, wifi to mobile, 4G to 2G to make calls, etc) properly as a lot of the issues seem to appear when the signal disappears or momentarily drops on one network type and the fallback network access doesn’t connect properly or times out. This sort of seems to be confirmed because if I am at home and both wifi and mobile data are enabled these problems occur all the time, but if I switch one (it doesn’t matter which) off I never seem to get these problems. So I now switch mobile data off when I’m at home and wifi on, and every time I go out I switch wifi off and mobile data on. Of course you shouldn’t really have to do this on a mobile phone in 2021 to keep it working but workarounds have long seemed to be the way to go with Sailfish …

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I am using the 10 II for two weeks now without Android and I am not satisfied.

  1. Same audio problems as on the Xperia X (bad quality when using the supplied headset) - not usable in a car
  2. Not possible to pair with the Car Audio
  3. Native Browser stopped working on some pages (might be problem also with the web pages, but on the X with Android and Firefox they work w.o. an issue)
  4. When Trying to restart the home screen it freezes and flickers without any option to recover - had to reboot couple of times

My guess is if I buy the license and add some Android apps it will become even worse.

I guess I will stay on the Sailfish X with 3.3.0.16 for some years until Jolla does something.

I also agree that the quality is far from satisfactory although the devs are doing their best. It is actually a shame, because the N9 still works fine and w.o. any issue - only the software is outdated. I can’t believe it is soooo hard to deliver a working version.
My guess is that it is a wrong approach which I am seeing lately (couple of years already) in open and not so open source development.
Unfortunately software management and development thinks they know better - it is a pity and a shame. They want to deliver new functionality, but it happens on the cost of quality.

Especially the headset and car audio part in the context of pulseaudio is life threatening as the phone is totally unusable or dangerous while driving.

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I’m afraid I’ve given up trying to use SFOS paired to a car for either phone or audio - I rely on my iPhone 12 now and SFOS on my XA2 is really just used as a hobby phone. There are multiple other threads on the quality issue, which I’m sure you have read. Generally when people raise this issue the forum enthusiasts’ response is either “It must be your hardware device that’s at fault” or “Jolla is a small company without the necessary resources so you can’t expect anything different”. And whilst the latter may be true it is completely missing the point.

Jolla is a small company, and it may not have many resources, but then why not concentrate on doing less things really well, rather than more things and never quite getting them sorted? Plenty of small companies develop and offer niche products that are of good quality, reliable and usable. That’s a much better business model than trying to constantly deliver ‘more’ and failing.

I think there is a real risk that Jolla will leave a trail of ‘almost working’ phones in their wake with their current ‘software development driven’ business model. I shortly fully expect them to say “We’re not fixing any more bugs on the 32-bit XA2 SFOS because we’ve now moved onto 64-bit and are concentrating our resources there”. Then what happens when the next tech innovation comes along on the Xperia 10 iv or whatever? All the previous phones will be stuck in their ‘we almost got it right’ state with non-functioning bits of the OS and apps that won’t run properly any more. That’s not really going to do much for customer confidence regardless of whether they are corporate or consumer customers.

In another thread somebody said that Jolla doesn’t compete with the big boys like Apple and Google. Of course it does - that’s why we keep getting shiny new features like encryption, Sailjail, 64-bit, etc. They may not compete on market share, target customer base and so on, but they certainly compete on product features, functionality, etc. They have to otherwise they’d be pushing the functionality of a Nokia 5110 in 2021 and nobody would be interested. This is part of the problem.

However I often wonder why Jolla never concentrate on pure bug-fix releases rather than always striving for visual or functionality change in every new release - personally I don’t care if, say the people app, has pulley menus or tabs or buttons, I just want it to work. Its like they are trying to constantly impress their market with the next shiny new thing - even if its not fully developed, doesn’t work reliably or breaks a whole load of existing apps. Its a telling story that the technically competent devs on this forum are constantly providing workarounds for Jolla issues by providing scripts, or suggested edits to config files, or shell commands to restart this or that, or patches, and so on. The reality check is that this is 2021 and we’re talking about a mobile phone OS - who does (or should be expected to do) all that just to keep a mobile phone working?

This is of course a double edged sword - and I do have some sympathy for Jolla in this respect. With so many users mucking around with the internals of their OS installations Jolla never knows precisely the state of the OS software that any forum bug is reported against - and I have no doubt that some workarounds will have knock on consequences that nobody has thought of which affects, or even causes, some of these bugs. People rant against Apple for their closed ios ecosystem, but at least it guarantees that everything works properly day-in and day-out.

Anyway, all the above is one point of view. The other point of view is that Jolla doesn’t really worry or care about all this - as long as they can pay their employees, give them something interesting to do, and retain a few big corporate clients as a result they are happy to remain as a ‘hobby niche’ provider to anyone else. Although I often wonder (and nobody seems to know) why ‘proper’ Aurora customers aren’t seemingly bothered by all of these basic capability and quality issues. Perhaps there some of them on this forum with a view?

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I struggle to believe it is due to hardware faults because again, I used Android on this phone for many months (from January to June nonetheless) and no issues appeared, everything worked flawlessly. Now maybe someone could say ‘Why don’t you simply go back to Android, then?’. That there weren’t any bugs doesn’t mean that I liked using that OS. Coming from BB10 for many years, I didn’t enjoy using it much and the interactions weren’t quite what I like. It is also exciting to use different technology, especially something that is niche and therefore tailored for a specific userbase. Giving my data to Google and other advertising companies is also something that I don’t particularly enjoy.

As @Steve_Everett says, I fully agree on less things that work than many things half-baked. I just tried to download a PDF for an airline flight and the phone was completely unable to handle the website. Now their website is full of crap, but as I said in the original post, a phone in 2021 CANNOT be unable to handle this task, however complex and poorly designed the website is, that is simply unacceptable, especially for a PAID product. If this was UBTouch, I would’ve said ‘well, it is community maintained and it was free’. I paid a licence for SFOS and Jolla profits from this, as well as from their corporate clients, so being unable to do such a simple task was saddening, as I really want to root for Jolla/SFOS as the proper alternative to the duopoly. I then downloaded Firefox Android to see if I could download it through that app, and the entire phone crashed when I tried to download the boarding pass, having to force a reboot. This is a phone from 2021 with a proper CPU which, again, didn’t have any issues with Android and I can’t even download a boarding pass, let alone read the news because the cookie banners don’t seem to go away with the native browser. I know some of you said that you aren’t encountering these issues, but it just happened to me again and from the other bug threads for the 10 II, for such a small userbase there seems to be a considerable amount of users experiencing little things that are off and bigger issues such as this. It is gradual, slowly things start to break and in the end I have to reboot because nothing works.

I have nothing against Jolla, but with such a buggy experience, how can a company just completely stop and go on holiday? Like I said on my original post, everyone deserves a holiday and that is fair, but now I get why US and Asian companies dominate the tech industry, they never stop until it works. With SFOS, I’ve got a piece of software that I paid for with many issues and no updates in weeks. I really just wish it worked because I hate the Apple/Google duopoly and SFOS can be so good. It feels like it’s the only proper alternative, with such a good legacy from Maemo/meego. I just don’t understand why it fails to do such basic things and why they are not fixed immediately (looking at the forum, the XA2 still suffers from phone call problems, as well as the 10 II). Like I said at the beginning, my BB Q10 from 2013 does these things better and that hasn’t been properly updated in years. I don’t want this to seem like a rant (some parts of it sadly are, sorry), it’s just that when even the little things don’t work, you kind of lose a bit of motivation for sticking with SFOS, and I’ve just been here for a few months. I can’t imagine the patience long term users must have, Zen-like patience!

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