Old new user disapointed

[nemric]

Hi there,
I’m did buy some years ago a XA2 to try with a licence sailfish OS (2018) and went back to android

Now SFOS is in its 4.5.0.25 version and I did spend 100€ to repair its screen and went back to the new SailfishOS V4.5

I really believe in this project but, many years later…

Default weather app doesn’t work, this is the first thing a new user can see at first boot just after training app ! well, disable weather on event screen and uninstall the bad app…

I’m unable to add an O365 account with this error : [4.4.0.72 - 4.5.0.16] Unable to create Microsoft 365 Account - Using a live.com.au domain

well, it’s fine to now have this old phone as a non daily one to “play” with SailfishOS and still hope for a better user experience

Sailfish rules ! thanks for great job … past and future

[eson]

Since you don’t seem to know much about past (wish would explain a lot) , I hope (and think) future will satisfy most of your expectations, if not all.

[pawel.spoon]

… you believe in the project, so you try it again after 6 years …

that sentence slightly confuses me

however, welcome back

[nemric]

Yeah, I come back 6 years after as an “end user”, I did have a Nokia N9 (and a HMD/Nokia XR21 now) and want to be “android and firends” free

When I went back to android 6 years ago, Sailfish wasn’t ready for daily use, I made my XA2 alive after a lot of personal/pro events to see where “we” are !

Sailfish is a great idea and project, but, as Linux was some (many !) years ago, it doesn’t work “out of the box” and need a lot of skills to make it work as expected

I’m not afraid about using linux as it’s my job, as a DevOps, to use it everyday but I don’t want to debug O365 account creation or make meecast (because default app doesn’t work) showing weather on event view or having a browser that won’t let me see some grafana dashboards …

For sailfish to be wildly adopted, after spending time to follow user guide to unlock phone and install SFOS (that need some skills) having at first sight to debug your OS for default features like weather and O365 (that you paid for) is not reliable

So, YES !, I believe in the project, I’m back (and you don’t really care about it ;p ) but please jolla, make default features work fine out of the box and let us discover the power of OSS by ourself step by step

[pawel.spoon]

wake up, even if sfos were perfect and would have all the apps, it would fail to get into the market
it is a niche product with all its consequences

[ohnonot]

If I depended on Microsoft mail I’d be miffed, too.

The weather app is an easy “fix”: use MeeCast instead.

[Kanthal]

If it was perfect and had apps it wouldn’t have been a niche product.
Android starter like a complete crap alternative to iOS both software and hardware, but became the dominant mobile OS.

[eson]

And iOS started as a more or less stolen idea copy of Nokia’s Meego. Only with a bigger budget and a bigger patriotic user base.
Nokia invented the smartphone, Apple brought it to the audience. Google just did what they always do, took advantage of the public hype.

[Kanthal]

MeeGo started way later trying to finally catch up with the market.
And even though I still love my N9’s, the OS was never mature enough (didn’t have time to mature) and was full of issues. Also apps situation was even worse.

[eson]

Well, of course I know MeeGo was the final failure of Nokia, I just don’t remember what the predecessors were called. The point is that Nokia was the first with the real smart phone.

[Kanthal]

Well like it or not, iPhone made all these smartphones look primitive and that is millions of people agreeing by voting with their wallet. No one was forced or tricked to buy one or keep using it.

But that had nothing to do with the “if sailfish was perfect and had apps it would still fail” that I replied to.

[pawel.spoon]

hättn tättn
sorry that i did covert this thread to another historical review and what if thread :\

The org poster compared sfos from 4 years back to now.

I work in software, nobody, leterally nobody knows sfos, few know there is ub, nobody is interested in that topic neither, all are happy with a/a

Look at linux desktop: super usable nobody of all my friends does use it.
They use linux in cloud, in containers, but at home ? Again no

I do not see the market.
Now with banking apps and 2factor at work life is getting even harder …

but i am off topic. so will stop here

[Kanthal]

But this is what you said and I replied to. “If this and that sailfish would still be niche”.
When was sailfish/phone promoted as a Linux device in your pocket? I mean literally to be promoted for that specific reason and not just being mentioned with the rest.

I remember Jolla wanted to build the “new N9/MeeGo” (and also support the N9 actually) as an alternative to android/ios that was more private, had a cool user interface and android app support together with the modularity of the other half. These were the selling points and unfortunately they couldn’t get traction.

I don’t think the plan was to appeal only in a small niche community that won’t bring money. It’s just that they don’t have a choice anymore.
But this is just my opinion, I might be wrong or my memory might be fuzzy after all these years.

[nephros]

@eson

And iOS started as a more or less stolen idea copy of Nokia’s Meego. Only with a bigger budget and a bigger patriotic user base.
Nokia invented the smartphone, Apple brought it to the audience. Google just did what they always do, took advantage of the public hype.

And whatever t. f. Microsoft were thinking, they fucked it up.

[poetaster]

In these discussions people often forget some historical details. For instance, apple shares were in the basement (6 us dollars from a historical median of about 25) when they released the ipod in 2001 (6 years before the iphone). EVERYONE declared apple ‘dead’, again. My first ‘professional’ computing gear was an apple IIsi (then quickly ci, quadra, etc). At the time (late 1980s early 1990s) you could only really do serious graphics (DTP & co.) work with apple machines. But the mid 1990s, however, that was pretty ‘niche’ computing and apple declared finished.

The fact is, the ipod taught apple a lesson about consumer electronics (aka, the field dominated by companies like sony) and they already had the embedded experience to make a neat phone. And they upped their game. I’d call that a stroke of good luck after 20 years of up and down. And they never reached the market share of android even though they came to market at about the same time as google. But, after selling over 400 million ipods, I think apple had figured out the consumer electronics business in a way that google, to this day, has not. But google captured the Apps market, which is more lucrative, so there.

In any case, we’re still here, we still have a couple of options that are not the OS for adult children under the supervision of cupertino or the tiktok junkies with throw-away androids. I’m pretty happy, @pawel.spoon to only be using linux boxes and doing 99% FOSS. That the majority has lousy taste doesn’t need to spoil it for me

[nemric]

What a debate ^^

This was not my initial intention but it’s nice to read you
I won’t enter this debate about who first appear between egg and chiken ^^

I did just want to point the fact that, as an old linux distrib, the first sight of a fresh installed SFOS is a list of non working, or buggy, default features

At first sight, you have (after training mode) event view and open apps view, then, from event view you’re asked for your location for weather and … this is broken …

well, I then went to settings, show some account possibilities and try to sync my work O365 account to have mail, contact and calendar populated … well, unable to create the account without more informations

The device as this state is near to only succesfully boot that’s why, many years after, I’m still desapointed, at least a first time, I now need to get some skills !

Fortunately, my XA2 is now a spare smartphone and I can use it as a daily POC device

A niche market for sure and for a long time

[n900n]

I understand that works force the use of Office 365. I have a hard time staying clean whenever they invite me to “teams” or share Google docs…
I’d suggest to enjoy Sailfish from another perspective and revert to a “work phone” with all the spying crap, keep your personal contacts out of it. It’s the only way.

My way to enjoy Sailfish on the XA2 is to approach it from: what does it doe for me if tomorrow there is no internet? I think it is the best out there if you want applications to still work forever.

As an N9 user you will remember that Microsoft has infiltrated into and dismantled Nokia, disrupted the development of a real elegant non MS, Apple or Google OS that was already pretty mature.

On top of that delayed development of the best mobile phone photo camera tech for another 5 to 10yrs,

I wouldn’t be surprised if Microsoft got a share of license fees from Jolla included the 49 Euro’s that we pay for Saifish. That’s money well spend elsewhere, especially when you report it’s not working anyway.
Another way of Microsoft infiltrating and sucking up resources with maintenance overhead.

Microsoft has this thing O365 online to capture your original idea’s before you or your fresh university student nephew or grandchild has even finished writing them down.

Not on my computer but if you don’t like it don’t use it doesn’t work in this technology, hence the seemingly overreaching reply.

[nemric]

I’ll still using if as 2nd phone, I did buy a sim card for it

This post was only a kind of “alerting” about the first impression when starting SFOS, if weather app were not in event view I wouldn’t have seen the issue ; same for O365 account that stand in the middle of the settings screen ^^ so I clicked on it

[ohnonot]

@eson

And iOS started as a more or less stolen idea copy of Nokia’s Meego. Only with a bigger budget and a bigger patriotic user base.
Nokia invented the smartphone, Apple brought it to the audience. Google just did what they always do, took advantage of the public hype.

At the time (2000s or twenty-naughts) there was a lot happening. There’s been internet-enabled pocket computers, later with phone capability, for a while, concurrently from different manufactureers and with different OSs. IMO it’s not possible to pin down to one company.

The “revolutionary” thing Apple did was to remove the physical keyboard and thus create a shiny slab people will be happy to slip in & out of their handbags.

And even that was “invented” by others before (I believe also Nokia devs).

[nemric]

As far as I can remember, the first mobile device I’ve seen was a Windows PDA or pocket PC with a pen and a resistive touchscreen when I did only have a Nokia 6310i with gprs modem via infrared

I can’t remember if it was able to make calls or had any network connectivity, but, I did dream about a f***g “pda phone” that has been made by others …

I don’t know who create the first smartphone but my point of view is :
Nokia made the first reliable mobile phones while Microsoft was building pocket PCs
Apple and Google came to unify 2 worlds, then nokia did try to follow with symbian^3 (with touch sreen as in nokia N8) and then maemo/meego with N9, but it was to late

Symbian was a good OS, and when I did see first IOS from friends, they did show me landscape pictures as a revolution, at this time I had a Nokia E72 (my best phone ever) with native landscape photos, offline GPS navigation and a universal bluetooth stack (at this time IOS wasn’t able to connect other devices than apple ones)
I also had a friend with one of the first crappy android device, well, he was disapointed

I really love the idea that Nokia is the GOAT firm but … it’s not

well, I did just discover that my Sailfish OS can handle multiples account and I’ll use it as a home phone, for me and my son and THAT is a revolution ! having a /home space on a smartphone !

Thanks Jolla !