I already reacted to “dont wory” and refunding vat after some time, what is absolutely not ok and explained why, i only waiting for reaction from the jolla side
In theory yes, but it relies on the fact that you’re extremely unlikely to have your accounts checked by government officials.
It takes one pissed off government employee randomly choosing your name and you’re cooked because you knowingly (which is important - you knew you were doing something you shouldn’t) did this weird whatever.
Is it likely to happen? No. Is it a way to do proper business? Also no. Do I think Jolla is highly incompetent? Yes.
Seriously, this I would maybe expect from a company that just started, not a company that’s been around for over a decade.
I don’t understand how this company fails at being a company for such a long time, especially if you combine it with how they ignore their paying customers.
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I get your frustration and I don’t want you to suffer any such consequences.
My intention never was to suggest doing anything illegal, just to following what documented good accounting practice says when a supplier has failed to follow procedures. These things happen, and I think there should be a way, but the rules will be specific to your jurisdiction.
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the frustration is at the first place that jolla refusing to react to our posts, not talking about no reply to emails and standing like everything is “okeish” and that there is nothing to sort out…
i contacted another independent accountant and she confirmed that invoicing price for B2B in EU costumers are set from final price deducted by their local (Finland) VAT otherwise if the subtracting 21% for me, 23% for other, 19% for yet another b2b customer, they running multiple prices for same product based on customer location what is discriminating
we don’t know how they reports to financial dep looks like in their country but if it is similar, they have no way how to process reverse charges for different than their local VAT.
it is fine for the end-user customer to set one final price including different VAT as the end-user will not reverse charge VAT - the price is same and fair to all…
also she confirmed that “pay now including VAT with invoice telling 0% VAT” is just “fraudish” and we should not accept this behavior
I’m sorry for you and your feelings. And excuse me that I can only talk about facts. Let’s start with this from the start post here:
I’m sure you have understand that there are no accounts with Jolla, only programmers. As you can read above the will fix this. Remind the last sentence:
I don’t know what your experience with EU VAT is. It’s tricky sometimes. In my day job I have helping some companies to deal with this. All mistakes happened can be fix on a simple, legal way. Shit happens, at least for me and for this companies. In a real B2B this is no problem. You declare your mistake (Jolla does it in the startpost here) and fix it. If a wrong invoice is out you can create a credit note and produce a more better invoice. All this is business as usual.
In the B2B world there is seldom room for emotions. So please be calm. And the use of the word “fraudish” can create legal problems because it is possible your be ask to proof the malice. My tipp: don’t use such words in emotional postings.
Thanks
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In Thursday there is community meeting, might be best bet to raise this topic there?
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purchasing b2b in EU for reverse charge very often, so that why is the jolla way very strange..
there is huge difference between make mistake, and do fraudish invoicing while you know you will/doing it wrongly, even worst if you say something in sense: pay as it is or you will lose your delivery slot because of payment deadline…
the fact is that what jolla will post on this forum is absolutely irrelevant to the invoicing where we pay price including VAT and VAT is declared as 0% in short by paying we accept the price and nobody could legally force them to refund/correct invoice. - you paid = you did agree.
also “fix after some time” is not satisfactory at all, as you know in business there are important exact terms, dates … nothing like calm down and wait when there will be great star constellation and we get mood to fix it…
everything was already written here or in another threads by me or other VAT payers so no need to repeat it…
hawg
As of May 5th, I haven’t received any emails for shipping outside of EU, UK, Norway and Switzerland and need to complete my orders by May 9th. I’d just like to document here in case my Batch #2 orders get cancelled after May 9th.
What makes you say Jolla needs to do anything with shipping to unsupported markets?
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Hello! Jolla doesn’t officially currently deliver to unsupported countries. If you wish to purchase the device to a country where Jolla doesn’t deliver currently, you would need to use some forwarding service for that with your own risk.
What makes you say Jolla will not do anything with shipping to unsupported markets and not actively seeking solutions?
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I wouldn’t hold out hope that Jolla will contact you personally before May 9th to arrange shipping outside of their current scope. It’s a nice sentiment they put forward, but I doubt with everything else going on (ie: EU VAT clusterfuck) that this is not very high on their priority list.
There will possibly be more shipping options if you differ your purchase till later, but that is just an uneducated guess on my part.
Well, all I can do is give Jolla the benefit of the doubt based on their written word, until May 9th. I don’t see the issue with having someone take time to ship my 3 phones along with accessories, privacy screen, extra back cover and protective cover (extra battery if available) for each phone, totaling 1917 € through DHL. It shouldn’t take them more than half hour to do that and still make a profit. I have paid for international shipping for products from Ruslania Books Oy in Helsinki through DHL and received with no problems. DHL even picks up the packages from the seller.
good news. i have been contacted by Raine via PM to provide my shopping details to get fixed VAT Invoice
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I keep wondering how much do the back covers matter when you add a non-transparent protective cover.
I have seen many transparent (and white) materials that get a yellow tint after a few years. Just to be safe, the long-term option with be orange or black. But, from the photos, those seem to hide the back cover completely (for the sake of protection), making the choice for the back cover irrelevant!
I would suggest Jolla invests in designing a nice fashionable protective covers that can, safely, display the layers of color that can make the Jolla phone unique while also enabling the expression of the sensibilities of the phone’s owner. This would be similar to layers of clothing that we use.
“Oh, the new moss green protective cover looks wonderful with my macaroon back cover! But it also looks fantastic with the new azure back cover they released. I’ll buy both and alternate the covers! (heart emoji)”
“Hey, if I combine this back cover with this protective cover I can display my support for my football club. That will sure make me popular among my group of friends!”
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I can confirm the transparent cover I used on my XA2 ended up looking quite disgusting after a number of years. However, I did use it often at work where the locations and my hands weren’t always the cleanest, so YMMV 
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They don’t matter if you will be using a case.
I’m not using cases and I don’t plan to use one now.
Also if we get fancy TOHs I’d like to try them as well, so even if I liked cases I wouldn’t be able to use probably most if not all TOHs if I had to use a case.
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I read this topic and others a couple of times, but did not see a clear statement from Jolla.
As an EU company customer who provided the EU VAT number twice during the process, will they refund us the VAT that was included in the total price we had to pay, even though we provided the EU VAT number on the page that stated “VAT will be deducted from the total price after entering EU VAT number”, but this did not happen?
" EU companies excluding Finland (i.e. orders including EU VAT ID) will be manually processed after final payment has been executed." - What does “manually processed” actually mean? That they will send us the proper invoice later, which actually includes the company name and VAT number? Or that they will also refund the VAT that we should not have payed at all?