It has been said time and time again. The replaced Android system, nor the Android base for the SFOS port has absolutely nothing to do with the Android App Support where your microG will run.
Oppinion != fact. Read up a bit instead.
4 Likes
Communication
Probably or possibly because many people arrive to the same conclusion based on the same obsevervations. This does not mean that because many people see the Sun moving, then it is the Sun turning around the Earth. Observations and facts are two distincts categories.
Moreover, if you need to repeat things then it is time to write a post about those things and pass that link to everyone faces the same question/doubt. Ouch, it will be crossposting sharing a link among many threads. 
Documentation
For this reason, I took a look to the SailFish OS Whitepaper and I noticed that the origin of the project are rooted in 2004 which is about 20 years ago, while the first release of Android is reported back to September 23, 2008 which are 14 years ago.
That was about Nokia, then Jolla started over on 2013 with SailFish OS.
Xperia 10 II get into Sony OpenDevice program in June 2020. Soon later the Android App Support was introduced into SailFish OS in Q4, 2020 (c.a. 6 months later) while the Android support for automotive in 2021. We can assume that “playing” with X10 II was a testbench to move the Jolla business in a more profitable market and give up the competition with Android (totally replace it, I mean).
Present
Therefore, the most interesting things happen between Q2,2020 and Q2,2021. However, the Xperia 10 II hardware support by SailFish OS can be considered nearly completed with the microG preview release on 29th May 2023.
Hardware support
Yes, hardware support. In fact, searching in the forum you will easily found references about the microG preview release solves a problem with the GPS. Whatever you might argue: if native and Android apps, both have problem with the GPS because the release version of microG, then microG should be considered part of the hardware support under the point of functionality,
Couriosly, I received my Xperia 10 II on 26th May 2023 just 3 days before the preview release of microG came out.
System Architecture
What you have said, many many times, is depicted here at the page 18:
The Android App Support is optional and separate by everything else. In particular at page 8, FireJail is cited as network security appliance (firewall manager): “apps have been sandboxed by Firejail and core
system services by systemd sandboxing”. Unfortunately, I did not find the SailJail which is expected to be delivered sometime in the future to achieve the fine control of network activities by the users.
Technical feedback
Finally, it is your turn. Look at the image and tell me where the microG is placed in that architecture infographic. IMHO, I guess it should stay - in terms of fuctionalities - in the hardware adaptation layer and also in the layer above, like in this picture:
Confrontation
Now, it is easy to confute me. I am not interested in, where it is installed the microG software. Nor of what is supposed it should do or not do. I am interested in, placing its funtional¹ role in this diagram. 
NOTES
¹ functional, what in practice is able to influence in a senstive way.
Holy crap what a wall of text.
This is untrue. The “because of” specifically.
And i quote an actual Jolla-employee (emphasis mine):
Nobody got it wrong to this level before. I am starting to think you are trolling. Answering new threads is not the same thing.
How are the likes for that heavily promoted thread coming along BTW?
There is no difference - it is all imagined by you.
It sits about here:
It is just a bit of framework supporting Android apps for certain functions, nothing else.
8 Likes
MicroG has nothing to do with SailfishOS or Jollas Android AppSupport and it is not needed. Location services work fine without MicroG. MicroG is in some way a replacement for the Google Play framework and some apps who use this framework do not work or miss some functionalities. For example searching for locations, showing push notifications and so on. Navigation Apps work perfectly fine without MicroG. MicroG does not interact with any native Sailfish App.
Jollas AppSupport also was released before the X10ii was released. It was available on the X10 and the XA2.
7 Likes
The Jolla phone supported Android 4.1.2 way back in 2015
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This seems coherent with the solved issue reported by @lkraav refering to an Android app bolt after upgrading microG:
Unfortunately, my experience is not the same. The GPSinfo was not working at all with SaiFish OS installed over Android 12 like many others people reported.
Once I downgraded to Android 11 and reinstalled SOFS, then the GPS fixing time was inaceptable long using GPSinfo before I decided to update microG at the last preview version. Obviously, I can revert it back to the stable version and make some tests again.
Also, Pure Maps started to work correctly and do not crash with the new version of microG. Again, I can do more tests expecially outdoor because some people reported issues happening outdoor, mainly.
I would happy to change my mind because as tiner the microG role into the device functioning and thus the Android system below, as better.
I will now stop feeding the troll.
5 Likes
Great, because I read that “The First Tablet with Sailfish OS” has been released on 2014. Thus, Jolla started quite immediately supporting Android, but not SailFish OS in free (as gratis) version because licensing issue as far as I read:
Please, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
The last time I switch on the GPS was to try the compass apps, some of them, at least. It was 18h ago, more or less:
Two things happen to my smartphone in this time:
- GPSinfo has been updated from v0.8 to v0.15.1-1 and now is able to calibrate the compass
- I have installed Google app and I granted to Google app the full priviledges, then I restarted the Android Support, then I removed the Google app (which failed and the icon remained) then I restarted the Android Support again (and the icon svanished).
After this two actions - which was completely indipendent because the first was an automatic suggestion due to the new native apps Chum market and the 2nd because I was giving a try to Google Lens app - my GPS started to work fine and also in the middle of my room it fix 3 or 4 satellites on 33 or 34 available indoor.
For sure the magic happes becuase GPSinfo calibrated the compass but compass calibration has been done also under another native apps, before.
I have a 6th sense for data leaking and about this GPS, it is triggered!
I might be wrong, I might be wrong, I might be wrong, I might be wrong, but…
I think you would do a lot of people a favor if you would ease down on all this incoherent reports/conclusions/speculations until you have more insight on how these components interact.
11 Likes
I agree. 
I never reported this as a “fix”, merely that for me, new MicroG didn’t seem to break location working by moving away from UnifiedNLP. Outdoors, Bolt was working fine with earlier versions, too, but indoors performance is much worse.
With new MicroG, I am mainly interested if indoors fix could also become high-performing. Testing right now, it seems indoors fix is obtained in a few seconds, but something like 100m away down the street.
What’s surprising me is that we have the same hardware (X10 II) with the same SFOS version (4.5.0.19) both we use the same version of microG (last available) with UnfiedNLP services active but our experience about GPS functioning is quite different. This is the reason for which I am still doing experiment on it.
Blackbox approch is a way but on the long run, I will go for the ADB console and trying to check the system log and everything else that can put me on the right way. I will keep you informed.
By the way I am using GPSinfo v0.15 and I have noticed that it is draining the battery at a rate I never experienced before. This is another novelty in the scene.
Maybe because I also do other modifications, like suplpatcher GPS stopped working - #425 by nekron and related gps.conf changes.
This usually makes all the difference.
If doing GPS tests you need to reboot the phone after each fix to get comparable results.
3 Likes
Yes, in particular this one.
A Word On 4G SUPL Support
It is mandatory to use SUPLv2 on 4G connected devices. To change the SUPL version setting I found out that patching the modems SUPL register is not needed because Sony vendor blob is initializing the setting for you based on
gps.confentry.For SUPLv2 support please add the following setting into the
gps.conffile:SUPL_VER=0x20000
In fact, using the fiber connection available on my parents home, I got the GPS fixed indoor at the 4th floor of six. While using my 4G connection with UDP+VPN, I cannot manage to fix my GPS at 6th floor of six. Moreover, also the time skew is a disaster - with time.is - I got something between 1.1s and 0.4s. This because the auto-update time service works under a stressed connection which is shared with my laptop as well by the WiFi tethering.
This also explain why Android system apps are able to influence the GPSinfo results. Because they introduce more suitable parameters and keep the time skew much lesser impactful. In fact with Android Support activated the time skew rarely reach 0.1s with my 4G connection used as above described.
Considering that autoupdate time service could be the source of time jittering and /vendor/etc/gps.conf is misconfigured for my 4G connection. I am testing the “device only” GPS option (factory setting) and I have disabled the autoupdate time/date.
The result seems promising expecially because as soon I visit the time.is website I got the 4/38 fix but soon I loose it again unless I reload that page. Yes, keep the system hardware clock stable is a master key for indoor GPS while in outdoor the signal streght is enough to support this variances.
Well, as far as I seen - microG is a jailed component that can be disabled and even when it runs cannot influence others subsystem unless it allows Android applications with system priviledges like Google app to interact with the network and stabilise the system clock.
The system clock stabilisation, is enough to do the magic to fix the GPS quickly also indoor. Under this point of view the green area is - even - much bigger!
In fact, a malicius Android application that would messup the system clock would be able to create a GPS service DOS. Please, keep in consideration that I verified the clock skew with the default native browser and also with DuckDuckGo for Android to check if the two source of time were different.
Again, this test has been done in a blackbox mode with appaling rude instruments. Thus a more specific and detailed investigation could arrive to another conclusion. However, about GPS there are 676 post in a single thread (and there are few many thread) - thus, it is time to fix such issue.
GENERAL SOLUTION PROPOSAL
@vige: I think that it is time to give a end to GPS stops working which is a thread with 676 posts about 3 years long. The following UI change will make a lot people happy expecially using the proper values as default.
Parameter to set are the following in /etc/gps.conf or /vendor/etc/gps.conf:
NTP_SERVER (selection dropmenu)
- time.google.com (default)
- asia.pool.ntp.org
-
europe.pool.ntp.org
… - oceania.pool.ntp.org
- north-america.pool.ntp.org
- south-america.pool.ntp.org
- [custom to enter by user]
SUPL_HOST:PORT
-
supl.google.com:7276
… - supl.grapheneos.org:7275
- [custom to enter by user]
in order to support 4G mobile connection the version 2 is mandatory:
SUPL_VER=0x20000
plus optional but suggested these other parameters:
XTRA_SERVER_QUERY=1INTERMEDIATE_POS=1ACCURACY_THRES=5000
Which can set by a menu or simply by three check boxes [0/1].
Did you notice this is an actual linux and not yet another android ROM pretending to be an OS? Just enable developer mode and set up a password then you can ‘root’ your phone with ‘devel-su’ and password in the provided terminal. What exactly gave you the idea that visiting a website like time.is will cause the system to change its clock? Looks like you’re chasing a crazy placebo effect (sorry don’t want to feed but wtf)
1 Like
Have you rebooted the phone between the two tests?
Because if I got a root shell under my fingers, I solve the problem but few people are able to digest a thread of 676 posts like GPS stops wroking started on July 2020 and with the last post 9 day ago Jun 2023.
Three years for a patch of 3 lines changed and not more than 6 changed!
[> trolling mode on <]
You all are the worst customer service I have ever had to deal with in my life and you all should pay a very expensive monthly fee to write on this forum! 
[> trolling mode off <]
THE PATCH
NTP_SERVER=europe.pool.ntp.org # just to replace google
SUPL_HOST=supl.grapheneos.org # just to replace google
SUPL_PORT=7275
SUPL_VER=0x20000 # v2 mandatory for the 4G connections
XTRA_SERVER_QUERY=1 # why not?
INTERMEDIATE_POS=1 # why not?
ACCURACY_THRES=5000 # uncertanty needs a limit
@miao: yes, solved. See my post before this.