Sorry for what may sound like a rant, I definitely don’t want to go into that territory, more like “clarify this for me”, but doesn’t it feel like nobody at Jolla actually uses Sailfish OS devices as their primary? There are so many little bugs and annoyances that you get to notice right away when actually using it on a day-to-day basis. I mean, can’t really miss them, they are so obvious. So thinking logically, if 10 people at Jolla were indeed using their Sailfish phones daily, those bugs would be the first in line to get fixed, just because they’re annoying and on the surface. Yet that’s not what we see happening. I totally understand some obscure edge cases missing their flow, but not browser hangs or network timeouts, or, on the grander scale, even the presence of an outdated browser engine should be one of the main priorities. If we don’t have much app software (can live with that), then the latest/greatest browser is an absolute must to cover the missing bits elsewhere. Whatever that is they’re doing, it looks like we’re definitely not their primary market by far. I’ve already hinted at that in the other thread, that feeling of lack of motivation and focus… it’s not communicated directly but seeps through their priorities and speed of updates as well. So right now we have Vёrla and that’s that. There’ll be no hotfixes until the next grand release which will bring even more bugs… Weird.
sometimes it is really sad, for example not supporting tama devices officially… i think of switching daily driver to an os with mouse and external display support!
I have the same impression. I think the strategy of Jolla is to let the community or the russian guys from Aurora OS improve it, because their resources are limited. In a way it is understandable. A lot of other companies succeded in this way, so why wouldn’t it work for Jolla also?
Nope. What the community makes is not easily included in the official os -see pressage keyboards, encryption, patches that fix UI issues and other that i cant remember from the top of my head.
And those are main os functionality. Not apps.
Were not a lot of security fixes and encryption added by the russian guys?
And this is a quote from the last release notes: “Jolla appreciates the collaborative efforts of its partners and community to make Sailfish OS even better.”
the main issue is that nowadays few platforms dictate the whole mobile world and SFOS is getting gradually marginalised either by direct exclusion or via a deliberate api upgrade race. being small and having limited resources makes the situation even worse.
Joke: Who is using phone for calling nowadays? 
Without getting into the details (there’s no doubt plenty of interesting discussion to be had in your comment @buckie, but I’ll leave that to others), and speaking personally, I can say that I certainly use Sailfish OS as my primary phone, and have done for many years.
No, I am not feeling it. For me Sailfish OS works almost flawless (except for a bit bad GPS reception). I use it as my daily driver and only phone.
Also, I think you underestimate how much effort it can be to fix “small” bugs. The “browser hangs, network timeouts, engine updates” seem to be problems many users experience and certainly Jolla is aware of them and working on them. As a developer I find that bugs that seem easy and small can be the hardest to solve with a lot of underlying work to get done. BTW: A major browser engine update was planned for the next release I believe.
I think development goes in acceptable speed. Of course, always may be better. One thing which could be a new impulse is native app store. I mean store where we can buy apps without Google or Apple spying services and ads. In real world free candys are not exist. I prefer pay money for apps and system development, not privacy.
I’m not feeling it either. I also don’t see much reason to doubt sailors are mostly using Sailfish on their primary phones. You simply don’t do this kind of work if you don’t believe in it. OMP is probably a bit different, due to seeming lack of availability “civilian” Sailfish/Aurora phones over there, and many being more conventional hires (as opposed to enthusiasts).
Many of the bugs that are complained about i have never seen myself (not disputing validity). Sometimes i notice bugs being fixed within weeks upstream, when we end up having to wait for the next release. This is of course not ideal, but somewhat understandable.
@flypig Well. So then my next best guess would be (and was) that Jolla prioritizes issues and directions drafted by its partners over issues that would bother regular end users. I’m not really arguing with that, the point of the thread wasn’t to vent frustration or try to steer Jolla in some other direction, it was more of an attempt to understand the whys. Because Jolla does feel corporate in how OS is developing, yet they continue to beat the same drum with “sailors” and stuff for us. Which would be fine, if only anyone cared that much about end users, the care that I specifically don’t feel at all.
In my experience most Sailors do use Sailfish on their primary phones, but they often run early access or bleeding edge builds, so they experience other issues.
I’m honestly sorry that you feel this way, and hope future releases will change that.
It would be nice to have a community edition where the community can go mental on it/push the OS forward and a corporate edition for the clients (think of it as fedora/red hat enterprice) but the resources are limited. And because of that it comes down to priorities.
Well, this is casting fog well done!
So @buckie, you now have the confirmation that a single sailor uses SailfishOS on his “daily driver” phone.
I can also assure you that there are a few others at Jolla also doing that.
But OTOH, quite some don’t; and “Yes”, one can see and feel the results of that (8 years and counting)!
I also find the OS one of the best on the market. But when I consider that I spent 2 days with a freshly flashed XA2 (4.2.) over the hurdle of Bluetooth (no pin input possible in pairing) and the hurdle that the web browser is not available when I want to open a link, then I say to myself, for the normal user, this is not the right thing. Very often I have read here that many / some Android apps can make the system very unstable. Because I don’t use this Android stuff, I’m spared from these errors.
I mean Jollas strategy should be clear to all of us after all those years. The Xperia X program is just a prototype, to attract bigger players on the market. They were even already sucessfull, OMP and Rostelecom might not be the biggest companies, but they already saw the potential of the product. This is the reason why SFOS is always just partly updated, because OMP or Rostelecom are only paying for the desired function. Other reasons why development of SFOS is stalling, is the change in licensing from the QT-company, before the license was quite open, but now it is only usable for free anymore, if you are a project or private person, Jolla is a company, so they would have to pay a lot of licensing fees, to be able the use a newer QT-branch. What really would be a boost to SFOS, would be a big player like Huawei using and funding the OS. Huaweis Harmony OS has an Android compability layer, who knows but maybe this is Jollas Android App Support, as there were talks at one point. But maybe both Huawei and Jolla want to keep this confidential, seeing the american sanctions. And maybe, for such a big company like Huawei with thousands of developpers it would shamefull to acknowledge that they are using a ready to go solution. If Huawei could lend some of its thousands developpers to the SFOS project, it could become a real competitor for IOS and Android
Those are some valid points. Being a newcomer to Sailfish proper (had much joy with N9 in the past and lazily followed Jolla progress afterwards, having switched to WP), I kinda missed the obvious elephant which is the Xperia X program.
I’m honestly not at all sure about the OMP partnership, it always looked like a research project more than a project with a sound timeline and goals. Much like Google’s hundreds of eclectic projects that fade into history. But it is a straw that helps keep Jolla afloat. So then it follows that if we, the regular users, don’t get any meaningful revenue for them, the only reason they keep us on board is because we’re all just a big QA team, perhaps that was one of the selling points. Perhaps I’m stating the obvious, perhaps it’s been known all along and everyone’s just accepted that when Jolla was done with hardware?
It’s just… knowing how Russia operates, they’re hardly a sound partner. A change in wind direction may see the funds get abruptly withdrawn and people relocated to other projects. It’ll be the end then. I wonder what happened to EU funding though, what with EU being obsessed with monopolies and over-reliance on the US tech? I’m certain I’ve heard of several initiatives. Guess those didn’t turn out to be real or viable?