Interest to create a cooperative

General
#45

My suggestion is to grow in an organic way, i.e. try to identify some areas in Mer / SFOS that require further development and apply for several NLnet grants. (Keep in mind that maybe the funding call is competitive and it’s not guaranteed they will fund all / any. Applying is not too much effort, though).

In parallel, try to set up the organization, perhaps with help from another grant.

Both efforts will hopefully generate a bit of momentum in the community, and this can aid further growth.

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#46

I think the work your doing with bug triage is a HUGE contribution :slight_smile: But every bit helps!

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#47

I believe you are right. There is nothing standing in the way of beginning with picking goals that can be achieved piecemeal and building upon that.

So, the question is what projects?

Off the top of my head, difficult ones first :slight_smile:

  1. (thinking of @orangecat and the research oriented, institutional context): dbus interaction between sailjailed apps (or generally, firejailed). This is really tricky terrain which currently creates a lot (perceived by me) friction. We’re in a position where jolla, rightly, has introduced mechanisms to sanbox apps, which we want, thereby rendering them less useful because they can no longer communicate. We need a mechanism to expose permissions for dbus interaction between apps.
  2. Individuals like @karry currently host, for instance, tile servers on personal hardware and link. Is there a collective effort we could ‘attach’ to? Is this a ‘project’ that can sustainably be financed as you suggest? It’s more infra, and I think less likely to qualify.
  3. A ‘clearing house’ to bundle the capital of many small projects to pay license fees (still in the mapbox/tile provider domain). I can’t see getting this funded without an org. But the utility to FOSS projects (in the sense of minimal viable) is undeniable. The main issue is to keep api endpoints open without forcing every user into a license agreement and also not burden the developer with undue pain.
  4. In that vein, patchmanager web catalog. If I remember correctly is a python (django) application. I asked myself, can this be done with ‘less’. Probably. Has the same problems as the tileserver idea in 2.
  5. @Basil could probably benefit from funding for openrepos?
  1. XMPP omemo encryption and modern ‘views’ for SFOS (xmpp can do anything that signal can) and/OR
  2. OS level integration for Matrix. I have to admit I’m old school and don’t like the matrix protocol. But, it’s the way the wind is blowing. Also might be a ‘research org’ @orangecat like project.
  3. Basic improvements to the Calendar stack. ie. search @dcaliste may have a more concrete suggestion of a milestone on his list that could use some funding?
  4. Extending the developer documentation so that, for instance, https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/qprocess-and-sailjail , development is not so ‘piecemeal’ and painful. maybe an @orangecat research oriented project. There is ‘more than skeletal’ documentation, but in parts, you need x-ray specks to read between the lines.
  5. Probably should be prio. #1 Get the browser to 100. cough.
  6. All my personal goals :slight_smile: So, performant media tools for basic and not so basic image/audio/video production. I’m not sure where to start here, and I’m not looking for funding. I’m too tired to think :slight_smile:

Ah, the list is endless. I suppose we need a poll with shorter ‘goal’ statements.

As for my time, as of January, I’m likely full time FOSS project guy for at least 5-6 months.

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#48

I personally prefer a goal which benefits other FLOSS projects.

#49

Yes. But which ones, damn it :slight_smile:

#50

That’s a great list @poetaster. Personally, I think there are three important things to consider when choosing ideas:

a) What things are urgent for SFOS / Mer / Linux on mobile?
b) What things have individuals interested in implementing them?
c) What things can be funded (in the context of a particular grant call)?

Urgency is important because ideally the community can help implementing as many things as needed to make the platform a viable replacement of iOS and Android for a wider set of users. Otherwise, there is a lot of friction. Personally, I think improving browsing, chat/VoIP and navigation is the most pressing need as that’s the very basic smartphone functionality and it needs to work well. This includes items 11, 7, 8, 2 and 3. Repositories are also pretty basic, so that touches item 5 and maybe 4?

Ultimately, it is also important to pick things that have someone willing to work on them. I think sandboxing and security in general are a good academic topic for @orangecat, which I am also interested in. Better sandboxing might be possible to achieve using eBPF as a gatekeeper. Lots of enterprise container orchestration systems are exploring this area.

I am also willing to implement lots of unit tests in critical components in the mobile stack, and in general work towards making things more robust and secure.

Most of these items should benefit all Linux projects for mobile @pherjung, i.e. Maemo Leste, NemoMobile, etc.

Perhaps we can also ask for other suggestions in the next community meeting.

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#51

https://github.com/netblue30/firejail/issues/3184 related discussion in the firejail context.
https://github.com/netblue30/firejail/pull/3265

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#52

I should have put that list on your Funding page :slight_smile: I’m going to stew on it today and try to re-organize the list on the Funding page. Perhaps as a poll. I’m already gathering supporting documentation.

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#53

Thanks for asking me. I don’t know though if I can give good ideas on this topic (I mean funding oriented developments). Here is my personal wish/todo list regarding the calendar application, but anyone is welcome to amend it:

  • implement a week view (under way), mainly dealing with the close source parts, all OSS middleware is enough for it already,
  • implement a search functionality, requires both to work on the OSS middleware (add Sqlite commands in mKCal, expose the results as a QML model in nemo-qml-plugin-calendar), and in the close source parts (create the search UI),
  • implement multi-reminders, requires mainly to work on the OSS parts (the QML bindings are not ready for it at all), but also on the close source parts (adjust the UI accordingly),
  • implement reminders for read-only calendars (like the birthdays or shared calendars), requires to work on mKCal which was not designed for this at all,
  • expand recurring event handling, like being able to add new occurrence on specific dates, edit the exception list date… This would partially solve the issue of missing copy/pasting of events, because most of the use cases for copy/pasting implies actually to add a new occurrence to an existing event (and possibly edit it for minor changes like start time or location). This is also a mixed job of exposing this in the QML bindings and create the appropriated UI.
  • fix the problem of not being able to change the notebook after event creation. This is a limitation of mKCal (quite tricky related to UNIQUE constraints in the DB and how deleted events are stored and expose to the sync plugins).
  • implement a “apply this ambience during the event” functionality (like applying the silence ambience during a meeting). This is a pet project that I have for a long time now, but never prioritised it enough for completion. This is both dealing with UI and OSS backend.
  • implement a way not to get alarms for selected calendars (convenient for shared calendars when you don’t want to get the alarms of the other person). This is simple to add the switch in the OSS middleware, but it would require to adjust the UI (calendar or settings ?) to expose it.
  • expose sync logs to the user so issues but also movements (which new events have been downloaded yesterday from the server for instance) are easier to track. This is mainly done now for CalDAV sync. I’ve a demo UI for it (https://github.com/dcaliste/harbour-logbook). But it’s quite crude and further support should be added for other sync plugins like Google one, but also emails… This is mainly dealing with OSS bits.
  • rework mKCal so multi databases could be possible. Like that, applications could use a dedicated database and not deal with the system one. This is purely OSS oriented job.
  • implement/complete task support. This is half OSS (check sync plugin for compliance with task handling, mainly CalDAV one is ok, but I don’t know for the other ones, but also completely rework QML bindings so they can handle tasks), half close source parts with changes in the UI.
  • rework the QML bindings so they more closely follow KCalendarCore objects to avoid duplication of code between the two projects. This is mostly OSS work. It’s quite a tricky task though, because it implies to work with objects coming from mKCal which are synchronous and expose them to QML in an async way (this is currently done by duplicating all relevant information in dedicated structures).

These are ideas about developping the calendar. I don’t know if they can be used to write a funding proposal or be part of one… I can provide more technical details on each item if necessary.

Since this thread is about fund raising, please keep discussions about the features themselves in dedicated thread (existing or new ones).

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#54

Sometimes it is the start of an enterprise that makes profit. I remember in the seventies consumers could be a member of an organic food coöp.Some of them grew and changed into ‘normal’ shops.

#55

I share your opinion. Jolla and the dev community are working on a product. Why? For whom? If you really want to make an alternative to IOS and Android you have to realise that the product must be acceptable and usable for most people. You have to set a goal and develop a strategy.

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#56

I’m not sure I want that: Jolla would also have to implement the Bundestroyaner by EU regulations. Atm Jolla might stay under the statist’s radar.

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#57

You are awesome dcaliste, my HIGHEST respect. I’d fund you any time, your knowledge for the community is absolutely fantastiv
<3

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#58

Thanks many bunches! I’m going to try to articulate (in this case, quote) a number of projects on the Funding page from @hildon . The impression I have from discussion and superficial research this qualifies. Perhaps @hildon beats me to it :wink:

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#59

As it is touching mapping stack, 2 & 3 are of great interest to me. But I also think that they can have a major impact overall for FOSS. Obviously, we would need some kind of legal body to make it happen. @poetaster was proposing to discuss it already a while ago - sorry, still haven’t picked up that topic with him.

#60

I’ve had some personal communication in the direction of an initial legal entity, but think it should be put up for discussion when we can formulate the (numerous) options more clearly. A cooperative (I’m only familiar with the German variants). A foundation (bound capital). A simple corporation (there are 3 limited forms in Germany with various levels of initial capital required).

I’ve started doing recruitment :slight_smile: In any case, the mapping infrastructure is also a case study for many similar ‘shared’ resource cases. Maybe we could gather examples? One obvious one is weather, and another public transportation.

#61

Sometimes I’m charitable. Perhaps even often. Generally that has some self-serving motive involved (the psychology of the ‘good’ samaritan?). In any case, what we’re talking about here is finding concrete mechanisms to achieve well defined goals. Well, we’re trying to elucidate the goals and the mechanisms.

As for earnings from SFOS, well, I think I’d rather be the owner of a game franchise like Fortnite than the platforms it runs on. I know the ‘intellectual property’ angle that sticks to jolla is ‘irritating’, but if you compare it to apple/google/etc it’s still a much more ‘open field’. I’m of the opinion that we can bring intellectual capital to bear to change jolla. now @olf will convince me otherwise :slight_smile:

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#62

How about a conference to discuss this?

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#63

I’ve been searching for the past weeks how we could achieve such organization. I found a tax expert and a notary that helped me picking the best legal form. In Austria, the easiest way to have people and organizations (IE: Jolla) to associate themselves together would be an “association” (in German: Verein).

Austria is basically ran by them as if you want your child to do any extra-curricular activity, have a garden in Vienna or train your dog… you need to join an association and pay a year/quarterly/monthly fee.

Based on past topics discussed here, bellow are the reasons why an association :

To create an association is very simple and straightforward (link in English) :

  • Find at least two persons
  • Write the statutes in German (I got a template already)
  • Send those + required documents to the Associations Authority (either the central police station or the district authority)
  • Wait either for a positive reply or no reply 4 weeks after sending the docs see paragraph “Deadlines” of the English link

Required documents are: full name, correspondent address, date and place of birth and copy of the statutes. Couldn’t be easier.

Questions you might have:

  • What about tax deduction from the donation ?
    • This would require to create a “fundation” (in German Gemeinnützige Schtiftung) which requires more initial founders, 50k€ and needs to be approved by the Ministry of Finances.
  • But wait, don’t we have to set all the projects we want to support first in the statutes ?
    • No, in the statutes we can/have to write a more general status : “support and promote the development of SFOS and distribute the material under LGPL license”. Then, we can have monthly meetings were we decide how to spend the funds. (@pherjung talks about it here and for ideas/priorities there is @dcaliste comment )
  • Only SFOS and not all FOSS projects ?
    • There are many already existing organizations supporting FOSS projects, 0 supporting SFOS ones. In my opinion, we need to focus on something.
  • What if SFOS disappears one day ?
    • Well it’s (mostly) open source, isn’t it ?
  • Why LGPL license ? After people/corporations/GAFAM/BATX can fork and sell apps we financed !
    • True, but so can the initial developer to make a living. Maybe professional developers have arguments against it, it’s worth discussing about it. Doesn’t need to be in the statutes.
  • Hiring people across borders for an NGO ? (question asked by @poetaster )
    • Not hiring the person but paying for a service instead. Like you would pay a freelancer.
  • Should we wait for November for this to start ? (question from @poetaster)
    • Actually there is, the 8th of October a meeting in Vienna, and we could start even before that !
  • What do you mean by associating ourselfs with Jolla ?
    • Jolla could be a member of the association if it wanted too; so could other companies/organisations upon approval of it’s physical members.
  • What are we waiting for ?
    • At least one other person, preferably in Vienna so I don’t have to send the documents by the post office for a signature. But if it’s further I’ll just do it.
  • Why not a cooperative ?
    • We would pay a lot of taxes.

End remarks, I will post translated statutes soon, need to find the easiest way of doing so, so you can collaborate on it. Ask questions I didn’t think about/forgot replying. Don’t be afraid to PM me.

Can’t wait to see this ongoing !

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#64

If tax deductions are important and/or you want an initial low-effort legal structure, it might be worth looking into the option postmarketOS and others are using, i.e. the https://commonsconservancy.org.

The process is explained here. Basically, they provide services for free and open software foundations, including hosting infrastructure for wikis, etc; all based in the Netherlands.