There is NO way this update was tested. Nothing hardly works

[deprecated]

Hi first things first… there was no thin veil…my post is full of contempt for bad software being pushed out from eadquarters. Kneecapping my phone.

You missed the point, didn’t you?

Im not an OS programmer and the brochures did not tell me I had to be.

Did you never learn to “shop around” before making a commitment to a purchase? Reading is hard…

And awesome that you are on T-mobile and have no problems. You win the award for most besest your in the Sailfish community … you have be awarded the Golden TARtar sauce !

Did that make sense in your head?

Look friend I can only share what this little monster is doing. If its something I did wrong then I am willing to be accountable for that.

Except you’ve demonstrated that you’re incapable of accepting responsibility for your choices. It’s always someone else’s fault, remember?

If the devs have had a bad release I am pretty sure they are willing to take accountability for that.

Which is why it’s important to file actual bug reports. Otherwise, we just have to “take your word for it” and file it away as user error.

Its a two way street. If the OS is maturing to the point that is only for engineers and hackers then yeah I may be wayout of may league.

It has never been a “normal user” ready mobile OS. That’s why it’s an alternative with minimal market share and forums devoted to bugfixes and user reports. You’re making my point for me but you don’t even realize it.

I need Jolla to let me know that… not you and your opinion about someone you know nothing about.

I know enough given your behavior and attitude. You know very little about the platform, and would rather spew vitriol than provide constructive criticism or useful bug reports that are REQUIRED to address problems and provide fixes. If something somewhere is wrong somehow… someone needs more information.

Im not asking anyone in the community to take my word…im just reporting my user experience with the phone …Devs can do what they want with the report. I have no say in the matter.

You’ve missed the point. Again.

Oh and about 25 messages or so up…a user listed all the same issues I listed and know more of the technical lingo so there is that…

No, “WedgeStratos” explicitly stated that they are experiencing some of the issues that you “reported”, half of which aren’t actually issues. They’re expected behavior. Their list:

MMS failing if connected to WiFi

Expected behavior, you can get around it if it bothers you.

Downloads locking up

Very likely not a real issue, and usually a result of incorrect APN settings.

Up to 4.3, I would regularly miss calls

Never had that happen, and the majority of users don’t either. Isolated problems likely related to carrier/locale problems != overwhelming bugs.

However, I find myself having to call my voicemail in order to receive texts, especially with 2FA.

Probably has the SMS message center address set incorrectly. Again, APN/cellular settings.

I’ve regularly had my phone drop from 4G to 2G for no good reason

By design. It’s a fundamental issue with 4G/LTE itself, not Sailfish OS.

GPS only ever worked with 3.2 on my XA2, and has been broken ever since.

This is covered in the official Jolla documentation and elsewhere on these forums. My GPS works correctly on all of my devices.

The newer Android versions have made apps a little snappier, but I see apps turn off regularly now since the newer AD seems to take more memory to run.

Okay, since when is Jolla responsible for the behavior of third party apps… especially Android apps?

And naturally, awaiting VoLTE support, and group SMS support.

This isn’t a bug. It’s a feature request. Jolla didn’t sell it with the promise of VoLTE support (thought it is on the roadmap) or group SMSes, which aren’t very common with their target market.

So… a few feature requests and complaints of issues that aren’t prevalent with the bulk of users… did I miss anything?

[Kea]

Nowadays a perfectly working OS:
has the possibility of making video calls,
has a reliable working GPS, maps and satnav,
makes sharing from native to android apps easy,
has a fast and properly working browser,
has radio apps that produce sounds without stuttering, etc.
Sailfish is an elegant OS with a beautiful design and a nice, easy user interface, but it is not yet ‘perfectly suitable’.

[808]

I am not sure what your point is but you can’t project your lack of negative experiences on to other users because no matter how you dress it as expected behaviour or whatever nonsense you are on about… but it does not change the fact some people are having issues and all that was done here was a report on said issues.

your run down of issues you claim are expected is nonsense… no none is going to except as expected basics operations not to work ifhey are experiencing them. You actually wrote that mms not downloading as an acceptable outcome. Thats delusional.

Look.you have taken a bug report personal and you need to get over it.

If you can’t handle the fact that some people have some issues im not sure what I can say…

This back and forth with you is nuts.Lets do the community a favor and stop it. Take care .

[deprecated]

I am not sure what your point is but you can’t project your experience on other users because you don’t have them.

The irony is lost on you, isn’t it?

your run down of issues you claim are expected is nonsense… no none is going to except as expected basics operations not to work if they are experiencing them.

… What? You should probably read my post again. It might help.

Look.you have taken a bug report personal and you need to het over it.

What bug report? You didn’t file a bug report. You made a passive aggressive post and are now trying to walk it back now that you’ve been called on it.

If you can’t handle the fact that some people have some issues im not sure what I can say…

The issues are yours, which is the point. Why are you having a hard time with this?

This back and forth with you is nuts. Take care .

What’s nuts is that you still can’t reconcile the fact that you didn’t file a bug report, and instead opted for sardonic quips and belting out uninformed nonsense.

Try harder next time.

[808]

Spot on …I personally would be happy if the Sailfish Os could do what Meego could do at the very least.

I gave up on listening to music using sailfish a long time ago. The stuttering was painful…even.on the jolla phone it was bad.

I have the pure view 808 and It has Symbian and that too was full featured and had neat things.

we can only hope that the Sailfish team will get its act together and fix the bugs and maybe take notice of the good feedback in this tread and others.

[JoOppen]

I am using both, 3.4 on the XZ3 and 4.3 on the Xperia 10 ii. SFOS 3.4 is still fine but 4.3 has many tiny improvements that I appreciate.
3.4 has no less issues than 4.3 so 4.3 is definitely no regression.

[Kea]

What about this: camera isn’t working either, not the Jolla app nor the advanced app. I brought my XA2 to the latest update and this is the result: the wheel keeps turning. . A working camera is one the main features of a smartphone nowadays.

[WedgeStratos]

To respond to this with my contents…
How is failing MMS “expected behavior” when mobile data is turned on and available, in a circumstance where it shouldn’t be a problem to temporarily pull traffic from the carrier for the message while also using the wi-fi to route normal TCP and UDP traffic?
Your excuse of it being an APN issue is rich, considering it’s the same settings it has been since I configured it, and they’re as much of the same settings as I can match. Look at the setup guides for Mint Mobile and then look at the options a user has in “MMS access point” and you’ll see there’s a distinct lack of variables that can be set. This can’t be user error if the user isn’t given a choice.

If this drop issue is a 4G issue, why does Sailfish not have any systems in place to attempt re-establishing the higher state? Simply query for the 4G signal a few times every handful of minutes. I can accept being on 2G for 5 minutes, but when I use my phone in a WORK CONTEXT where I need that internet access, 4G is not optional. I have let it drop to 2G before, and left it to see if it ever does so. One hour later, I remove the XA2 from my pocket, and it is still on 2G.

What documentation are we talking about? One would assume you simply install Pure Maps, and maybe the OSM Scout Server, and it works in some capacity. MLS may be gone but there are still satellites that should reach me.

I’m not expecting Jolla to deal with the memory issue other than in a case where it is severe, such as with 4.0, where their implementation of Android 9 was shoddy at best, and two Android apps of basic condition (Telegram and F-Droid were enough) could suck up enough memory to break even the browser, if not cause Silica to outright crash. Most of this was remedied with 4.1 tremendously after they updated AD to be based on Android 10, but 3+ Android apps can still sometimes bring Sailfish apps down. I’m aware this is a case of managing my expectations when on a device with only 3GB of RAM, but it’s just interesting to see how these versions are contrasting.

The experience Linus (of Linus Tech Tips) has been having with desktop Linux, and the attitudes of the communities regarding his tech support issues, shows that we are a long way from any widespread adoption. Even as a tech-savvy individual, who has gone out of their way to expand the root filesystem from Jolla’s paltry <2GB size to a whopping 5GB, I can safely say that there are issues with Sailfish that aren’t a simple “ID10T virus” excuse, and are a direct result of poor UI design, or bad programming. For the people that have had “no issues” with Sailfish themselves, I envy you. My heart goes out to 808, however. I can terminal my way through some things if need be, but that’s obviously not what 808 paid for. With software like this, companies aren’t going to buy into Sailfish if it means having to pay insane IT fees or wages for issues that wouldn’t crop up on an Android or iPhone.

I don’t think my expectations are overestimated either. I knew getting into this that it would be far from a normal phone. I just didn’t anticipate how many things I would take for granted from Android.

[deprecated]

Your excuse of it being an APN issue is rich, considering it’s the same settings it has been since I configured it, and they’re as much of the same settings as I can match. Look at the setup guides for Mint Mobile and then look at the options a user has in “MMS access point” and you’ll see there’s a distinct lack of variables that can be set. This can’t be user error if the user isn’t given a choice.

I’m on Mint Mobile and my MMS works. Weird. Tip:

Protocol: IPv6/IPv6. APN: Wholesale/Wholesale. Proxy: blank. Proxy port: blank. MMS message center: http://wholesale.mmsmvno.com/mms/wapenc.

I said it was expected behavior because it is. MMS is pretty rare in Jolla’s target market (EU), so it’s an afterthought. With WiFi on, your default route is via your WiFi connection… as expected. If you don’t like it, change your default route.

If this drop issue is a 4G issue, why does Sailfish not have any systems in place to attempt re-establishing the higher state? Simply query for the 4G signal a few times every handful of minutes. I can accept being on 2G for 5 minutes, but when I use my phone in a WORK CONTEXT where I need that internet access, 4G is not optional. I have let it drop to 2G before, and left it to see if it ever does so. One hour later, I remove the XA2 from my pocket, and it is still on 2G.

It does. You can even watch it happening with ofono logger. Crazy!

What documentation are we talking about? One would assume you simply install Pure Maps, and maybe the OSM Scout Server, and it works in some capacity. MLS may be gone but there are still satellites that should reach me.

The official installation guide which refers to the following (paraphrased) procedure: “If your GPS doesn’t work correctly, reflash to Android following the official documentation and confirm that your GPS can get lock”. What’s more, this forum has many examples of GPS problems with a wide variety of solutions. Tip: set it to “device only”, open GPSinfo, watch as satellites are detected. The first “cold lock” may take minutes. Mine took 10 minutes the first time, but only while I was outside. Now locks with Pure Maps are near instant.

I’m not expecting Jolla to deal with the memory issue other than in a case where it is severe, such as with 4.0, where their implementation of Android 9 was shoddy at best, and two Android apps of basic condition (Telegram and F-Droid were enough) could suck up enough memory to break even the browser, if not cause Silica to outright crash. Most of this was remedied with 4.1 tremendously after they updated AD to be based on Android 10, but 3+ Android apps can still sometimes bring Sailfish apps down. I’m aware this is a case of managing my expectations when on a device with only 3GB of RAM, but it’s just interesting to see how these versions are contrasting.

So, your gripe is with third party products and apps. Got it.

The experience Linus (of Linus Tech Tips) has been having with desktop Linux, and the attitudes of the communities regarding his tech support issues, shows that we are a long way from any widespread adoption.

Let’s try to stay on topic. LTT’s experiences with desktop Linuxes means nothing here.

Even as a tech-savvy individual, who has gone out of their way to expand the root filesystem from Jolla’s paltry <2GB size to a whopping 5GB, I can safely say that there are issues with Sailfish that aren’t a simple “ID10T virus” excuse

… What?

and are a direct result of poor UI design, or bad programming. For the people that have had “no issues” with Sailfish themselves, I envy you.

Uh, thanks… I guess?

My heart goes out to 808, however.

That’s great. Thanks for sharing.

I can terminal my way through some things if need be, but that’s obviously not what 808 paid for.

That’s exactly what 808 paid for. It’s just that neither of you are willing to admit that the reality doesn’t meet the expectations that you – NOT JOLLA – set for the product.

On the other hand, it meets all of my expectations and then some. I don’t use Alien Dalvik, because I don’t want to. If there’s a problem with something, I’ll fix it, because this is the only mobile platform that allows me to. I can use standard Linux tools and native software to accomplish every task I’m interested in. Something misbehaves and I need to restart it? Great, systemd’s standard tooling is there. Don’t like the available font sizes? Great, change them with dconf. Want to send raw commands to dbus for diagnostic purposes? Go for it!

With software like this, companies aren’t going to buy into Sailfish if it means having to pay insane IT fees or wages for issues that wouldn’t crop up on an Android or iPhone.

[citation needed]

I don’t think my expectations are overestimated either. I knew getting into this that it would be far from a normal phone. I just didn’t anticipate how many things I would take for granted from Android.

Why don’t you go back to your Google poison then? What’s stopping you?

[808]

yep mine will freeze up same for the dailfish native messaging app. Most times I have to reboot. I think its been reported that the camera is slow to start.

[808]

Your experiences with your kit does not iinvalidate someone elses. All floks are doing is what the Jolla team asked us to do and thst is to report our experience.

By your own writting you have no reason to be here in this thread. You have now stated 3 or 4 times your kit works a treat… on Mint Mobile. So you may need to gt.o and stop tapping out nonsense. You have no clue why I got sailfish other than what I shared.

Im not wanting to go into terminal not because I dont know… vut because I should not have to. I have been with this project from day one. I did my time. I did my part.

But with a poor releAse such as the last two…it seems the dev team is relying on us to do the majority of the legwork vs them paying thier Q/A to verify the phone will work.

Evidence of thier slacking was that keyboard bug last release. The basic IO ofa so called smart phone… not working for a good bit. I made a post about it.

Look did not sure what your goals are but they are not about helping…you are in about making excuses for bad kit. Your choice. But you dont have any issues and no relevant bug related to whats in this thread. So just stop. Yours Is Superior.

[deprecated]

Your experiences with your kit does not iinvalidate someone elses. All floks are doing is what the Jolla team asked us to do and thst is to report our experience.

What’s bewildering is that you’re still missing the point. You didn’t file a bug report. You didn’t provide logs. You didn’t provide anything substantive at all. All you did was make a passive aggressive post insulting Jolla’s development team while insisting that your experiences are the norm. I’m having a hard time understanding why you can’t reconcile that fact.

By your own writting you have no reason to be here in this thread. You have now stated 3 or 4 times your kit works a treat… on Mint Mobile. So you may need to gt.o and stop tapping out nonsense. You have no clue why I got sailfish other than what I shared.

… What? That doesn’t make any sense at all.

Im not wanting to go into terminal not because I dont know… vut because I should not have to. I have been with this project from day one. I did my time. I did my part.

Hint: nobody is forcing you to “go into terminal”. You’re complaining about an experience that you misrepresented and, instead of following instructions or applying workarounds, you’d rather complain about the problem.

But with a poor releAse such as the last two…it seems the dev team is relying on us to do the majority of the legwork vs them paying thier Q/A to verify the phone will work.

I’m curious… how exactly do you think this process works?

Evidence of thier slacking was that keyboard bug last release. The basic IO ofa so called smart phone… not working for a good bit. I made a post about it.

Neat… did you see the workaround at the bottom? Or… did you try a presage keyboard? Did you do anything other than making a passive aggressive post whinging about issues that aren’t widespread?

Look did not sure what your goals are but they are not about helping…you are in about making excuses for bad kit. Your choice. But you dont have any issues and no relevant bug related to whats in this thread. So just stop. Yours Is Superior.

I have no idea what you’re trying to say here.

If you file appropriate bug reports and behave like you have a modicum of sensibility, you will be taken seriously. If you act like a petulant child then you will be dismissed outright. Being a decent human being isn’t difficult.

[deloptes]

Even if it is let go the frustration if you are lucky with your device, why do you keep commenting here.
You just keep adding frustration with your nonsense.

we do not want workarounds, we want working software and as I stated many times - the attitude is the problem and nothing else. If you have lived with shit and got used to the smell of shit, than shit here or shit there does not make a difference.

my problem is that the guys do introduce API changes and and change other stuff and the system works worse and worse after each upgrade.
The IntexAqua has only one issue. The 10 II has 10. I managed to fix most on the 3.3.0.16 and got my X frozen there.

It is unbelievable how Jolla is releasing such software. Starting with 3.4 it degraded massively.

We demand more careful testing and perhaps less frequent but more stable releases.

[deprecated]

Even if it is let go the frustration if you are lucky with your device, why do you keep commenting here.

Review my post history. Go even further back to TJC or TMO, and you’ll see that I provide solutions to problems that exist because of limited manpower (on Jolla’s part), which is the very nature of community-driven open (or even semi-open, in this case) software. What have you done?

You just keep adding frustration with your nonsense.

No, I keep highlighting the real and actual issue here: some people aren’t happy with their perceptions not being met, and using their (admittedly limited) experience as justification for vitriol and contrived nonsense.

we do not want workarounds

I think that says it all, doesn’t it? You don’t want solutions to your problems, you just want to complain about the problems. Making any effort is too difficult, so let’s do the next best thing… lambaste the people who are making the effort. Great idea!

we want working software and as I stated many times - the attitude is the problem and nothing else.

My software works. So does most everyone else’s. Think about that for a minute or two. Sure, there are caveats and inconsequential issues here and there, but there are solutions, by and large, to make this platform perfectly suitable for day to day usage. Want to know the quickest way to get the working software that you want? File appropriate bug reports. Go through official channels. Avoid posting passive aggressive remarks, blanket statements or pointless diatribes.

If you have lived with shit and got used to the smell of shit, than shit here or shit there does not make a difference.

Perhaps you’re misrepresenting where the “shit” is coming from…

my problem is that the guys do introduce API changes and and change other stuff and the system works worse and worse after each upgrade.
The IntexAqua has only one issue. The 10 II has 10. I managed to fix most on the 3.3.0.16 and got my X frozen there.

Did you file appropriate bug reports, test known workarounds, apply patches or do anything at all other than complain about Jolla? That’s a serious question.

It is unbelievable how Jolla is releasing such software. Starting with 3.4 it degraded massively.

How, exactly? My experience on four devices has been the exact opposite. It gets better with each release, minor annoyances or fixable regressions notwithstanding.

We demand more careful testing and perhaps less frequent but more stable releases.

Do you really think you’re in a position to demand anything? Let’s be real here.

All that aside, was there a point you were making, or did you just want to complain about not wanting to do anything for yourself?

[808]

He or She wants to get the thread shut down. He flagged before and tnow he is just trolling the less fortunate of us user.

He had mailed me directly with some nonsense and asked me my age which was creepy and I warned him to leave me alone… but now he just shows up here bullet pointing nonsense about what we as users should do and should expect.

As for logs… I ran the tool but I dont feel comfortable sending my personal information back to jolla. I have no Idea what its exposing especially since the Os may be malfunctioning. I value my privacy.

So for now the devs will have use my big report if they even care about what was reported.

Hopefully they do and will not be hyperfocusedon how it was reported like our friend here is…

[deprecated]

He or She wants to get the tread shut down. He flagged before now he is just trolling the less fortunate of user.

I didn’t flag anything. If you’re going to accuse me of anything, at least make sure it’s founded in reality. I want this thread to stay open to serve as an example of “what not to do”. When people behave like you, it puts a damper on the entire process. It’s important that people see how this plays out so they have a better understanding of how this community is supposed to operate.

Put it on full display. Air your grievances, but don’t be surprised when someone puts you in your place.

He had mailed me directly with some nonsense and asked me my age which was creepy and I warned him to leave me alone…

No, I didn’t. That is an outright lie, which can be confirmed by site administrators. You’re resorting to special pleading and lying because your untenable positions don’t hold up to any scrutiny.

but now he just shows up here bullet pointing nonsense about what we as users should do and should expect.

It bears repeating. If you’d like to contend with reality, I suggest you prepare your arguments a little better. You know, instead of lying.

As for logs… I ran the tool but I dont feel comfortable sending my personal information back to jolla. I have no Idea what its exposing especially since the Os may be malfunctioning. I value my privacy

Sure. I believe you!

So for now the devs will have use my big report if they even care about what was reported.

You didn’t file a bug report. Why can’t you understand this?

Hopefully they do and will not be hyperfocusedon how it was reported like our friend here is…

In order to address a bug, developers have to be made aware of the real and actual issue, with substantive supporting information. Saying “eVeRyThInG Is bOrKeD WhY JoLlA So bAd” isn’t a bug report.

As an aside, I’m not your friend. I don’t make a habit of befriending angry people or liars.

[deprecated]

Post logs of me “mailing you directly”. I’ll wait.

[Levone1]

op says the phone is X2A - that’s the problem …

[sebix]

Have a look here: [4.3.0.12] Jolla camera (also torch) does not start at all - as well as videos do not play (direct link to solution)

[deloptes]

Even if it is let go the frustration if you are lucky with your device, why do you keep commenting here.

Review my post history. Go even further back to TJC or TMO, and you’ll see that I provide solutions to problems that exist because of limited manpower (on Jolla’s part), which is the very nature of community-driven open (or even semi-open, in this case) software. What have you done?

Firstly if you want to have your ego in the spot light, please do it somewhere else. It is not your business what I have done and if you are smart enough you could find out yourself.
I also do not ask for your workarounds. I personally ask for better QA and more stability.
Secondly Jolla is a company and the community has nothing to do with the company … your statement is false.
It is not the community project we are talking about here - it is the official releases Jolla makes as a company.

You just keep adding frustration with your nonsense.

No, I keep highlighting the real and actual issue here: some people aren’t happy with their perceptions not being met, and using their (admittedly limited) experience as justification for vitriol and contrived nonsense.

Funny, that no one asked for your opinion how you persive the world. Also interesting how you are insulting people by stating “(admittedly limited) experience”. You are lucky you are not around.

we do not want workarounds

I think that says it all, doesn’t it? You don’t want solutions to your problems, you just want to complain about the problems. Making any effort is too difficult, so let’s do the next best thing… lambaste the people who are making the effort. Great idea!

Also very interesting that you call workaround a solution. You are insulting again!

we want working software and as I stated many times - the attitude is the problem and nothing else.

My software works. So does most everyone else’s. Think about that for a minute or two. Sure, there are caveats and inconsequential issues here and there, but there are solutions, by and large, to make this platform perfectly suitable for day to day usage. Want to know the quickest way to get the working software that you want? File appropriate bug reports. Go through official channels. Avoid posting passive aggressive remarks, blanket statements or pointless diatribes.

Please give us a break! And thank you in advance for not answering me.

If you have lived with shit and got used to the smell of shit, than shit here or shit there does not make a difference.

Perhaps you’re misrepresenting where the “shit” is coming from…

I am quite sure they can do better. If they could remove all bugs from Harmattan and we know what “all” means, then they really can do it, but they do not want to do it, so it is getting worse and worse with each release.
We just let our frustration out. I do not see why I should have two devices and I should spent time debugging stuff. It is the same disaster as with linux desktops - it is the same mentality - perhaps it is the same people.

my problem is that the guys do introduce API changes and and change other stuff and the system works worse and worse after each upgrade.
The IntexAqua has only one issue. The 10 II has 10. I managed to fix most on the 3.3.0.16 and got my X frozen there.

Did you file appropriate bug reports, test known workarounds, apply patches or do anything at all other than complain about Jolla? That’s a serious question.

You are missing the point again. It is not about the bug reports or workarounds. It is about the number of issues that are coming with each new release.
But to inform you, yes, I reported the issues. Some of them were solved, some not. The IntexAqua was not fixed.

It is unbelievable how Jolla is releasing such software. Starting with 3.4 it degraded massively.

How, exactly? My experience on four devices has been the exact opposite. It gets better with each release, minor annoyances or fixable regressions notwithstanding.

Missing the point again. It is the many new issues.

We demand more careful testing and perhaps less frequent but more stable releases.

Do you really think you’re in a position to demand anything? Let’s be real here.

Yes, I do, as long as I have relation with Jolla, I definitely do.

All that aside, was there a point you were making, or did you just want to complain about not wanting to do anything for yourself?

Yes, there is a point, but I am not sure you are getting this point. The point is : Jolla and the software are great, but the QA is bad and recently it comes too often to buggy releases. It is getting annoying!

I hope you get it and leave your irrelevant stories. Again thank you in advance!