I fully understand that as a paying customer your expectations are high.
You paid the fee for a passage over high seas on a very tiny boat. Lunch might be served on the ground of the ocean.
You did not expect that. Point taken.
The good thing is: You can leave anytime for the two cruising ships sailing right behind.
In no time you are back to comfort zone.
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Hi,
My expectations are not high… that is a myth if the thread. My expectations are very much inline with most people that choose jolla and sailfish.
My point is that QA must be better. Expecting a basic user to fix issues using terminal is not acceptable as this is not some freshman year cimputer science side project.
If issues can be fixed in terminal that means they should be fix in the release.
My only real expectation that may differentiate my experience from others is that tolerance for some sort of movement on user QOL request made as far as 5 year ago is wearing thin.
The total disregard and unwillingness to acknowledge basic improvements has been stunning.
And the series of bugs in the last few releases have also been stunning misses.
It’s not out of line to ask what did we pay for…and why should a user support these efforts and change sets that ignore basic spec phone must haves.
Like most of you we followed jollas documentation and used our phones with android (my first time ever using an android phone) And it was top shelf ( Symbian The Meego user for my whole cell phone life)…
So that why I typed that Android was a high functioning and matire is…
My expectations are for devs to test their software before release to make sure
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So you expected the comfort of a cruising ship and took the tiny boat.
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What is this thread actually about except for ranting?
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I took the tiny boat knowing that it was a tiny boat, and not expecting to have my own cabin, or a TV, or a restaurant on board.
I did however expect the boat builder to check that his tiny boat didn’t leak before it set sail, and am disappointed that I have to spend most of my voyage bailing out water with a variety of buckets and other makeshift containers.
A better analogy?
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I agree that there are serious problems that affect almost all users, such as for instance the loss of network connectivity for normal (voice) telphone calls as discussed in this thread. For me it is a rare but serious problem because it occurrs silently and you might not notice that you are out of reach for others. At least my 10 ii does not ask for a reboot but simply says “network problem” when I try to make a call. Only then I notice that others could not call me for a while.
However, many of the other problems you are mentioning did not occur to me or concern something I do not need or use.
That is - from my perspective - why we should deal with every bug or problem separatly, i.e. in dedicated threads. A general “nothing hardly works” is way too unspecific and sounds like ranting. I guess that is what caused a lot of fuzz in this thread - and somehow you might have expected this and wanted to provoke some general discussion regarding QA and other more general stuff.
We could use this thread in a positive way if we create a hitlist of the most serious or most annoying problems in order to possibly influence Jolla’s priorities or resource allocation.
I agree: 1. is a serious problem for almost everyone,
2. I had only once and never since
3. doesn’t affect me because I am using Pure Maps plus it appears to be more of a convenience issue.
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The thread is about bugs that are handicapping a phone that should have nerver gotten out of QA.
post one is about the bug… check him out.
The rest of the thread which now includes your post which adds nothing because if you read the thread you would know that thereis no ranting going on.
Please note. Not agreeing with someone’s point of view does not make diverse point of views ranting.
Please note not everyone that is a sailfish user is a technical writer. The folks over at Jolla HQ did not make that a prerequisite to post about issues with their sofware.
This thread has evolved. It contains verification and clarification of posted bugs as well as neat tips,tricks and work arounds by tech gurus that may help users deal with the poor quality QA as of late.
This tread is not a rant. Its an indication that we exist as a community with some common understanding that our phone software needs improvement.
To the author of the the cruise ship post… nope. The person that wrote about the leaking boat hit it spot on.
No cruise ship wanted… just some paddles that were asked for about 5 year straight.
Hope that helps
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tl;dr: WOW, long thread. Looks like it’s broken behind repair.
Years before I tried to collect bug information in a list (old forum) - alone it was closed soon ‘due to dublicate’. So I collected bugs in my private list. Successfully, it was stable growing … And later the forum moved. To avoid the annoying meltdown of discussions? To forget the crashed fund raise for the Jolla tablet?
Some years after beginning someone remerberd the develeopers politely to take care for the basic stuff - phone calls, messages an so on - instead of huntig for Android app performance. Thats what we got now.
I wonder, where it will go and who is captain.
I guess it’s better to meet at upper deck and man the boats. Children and Ladies first.
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and you think you are in the center of the universe, so when it does not happen to you and it is not you use case, we are not right demanding better QA?
I do not understand your comments at all - it’s pointless and honestly - do not take it (too) personal, but I am tired of people who want to explain to me that the situation is OK.
as @808 and @Steve_Everett explained we expect that some basic things work. I do not expect it even to be working from the first time, but my experience is that quality is degrading since 1-2 years already and no one is taking care of, rather being busy with organizing repositories or whatever other stuff like releasing buggy version, which clearly shows how bad the quality management is.
I wish all of you a Merry Christmas and happy new year. With all respect to developers and community and a hope for better future for our planet and Sailfish
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What is this if not ranting? Just rude?
Hmmm where I come from ranting is when a user comes into a bug thread and claim the people reporting bugs are ranting and or being rude.
What’s incredible is the oblivious nature of people that come into a thread claiming people are ranting and not seeing they are ranting.
Look the very nature of criticism is by definition harsher than adulation. Bug reports are not clinical. They often contain personal experiences as its often easier to convey secondary information that is just as important.
Since humans are not robots are nature is to add exoression and colour to our commentary as not everyone is technical.
Frustrating can be a side effect when basic functionality fails. Frustration is a side effect when we know that the hardware can do the basics well. Frustration is a side effect when the OS still has the same old bugs and missing feature from so many years ago.
A side effect of all that is low tolrance for people entering a thread and showing their frustration at people who are frustrated because they may not be acting as expected.
You now understand why. Our phones are not acting as expected which in turn causes the users to act as expected which causes people that feel like you do to act as expected.
Now you know…and knowing is half the battle.
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You just answered my post where I quoted you telling another user that his post was meaningless and that he did not read the thread, which I would understand quite well considering your endless walls of text repeating the same on and on.
Actually even I stopped reading at
because I rather judge people on their attitude than on their origin. Actually I stopped reading your WoTs anyway. You just made it into the killfile.
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Long-press an image in the browser to save it to your device.
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Anybody know a trick to quickly jump to top/bottom of browser page?
I did not intend to offend you (or anybody else). To the contrary, I like the approach you took - indicating what bothers you in detail. I did not suggest you are ranting therefore I am a bit surprised about your reaction. The first part of my post concerned @808 post just before mine and I attempted to recite your post as a good approach to identify and prioritize the problems. Apparently this did not come across - sorry, must be my fault.
Please note: I do not say everything is ok. To the contrary. There are many things that need attention and fixing. Therefore, careful prioritizing is need and my point (and the reason for citing you) is that mobile connectivity is a mayor point that needs fixing. Therefore fixing this bug should be a priority. However: “all is bad” is indeed a position I do not share.
I guess we even can agree that we all expect that basic things work. We might not agree what the basis things are (although there is a set of features and functions that are basic for all of us, I guess) and some bugs (like the loss of fingerprints) only affect some of us which makes bug fixing more difficult.
Finally: I am not thinking I am the centre of the universe but I took deliberately a very personal perspective because our needs and experiences are personal.
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Not for the browser, but for this forum:
In thread overview tap on the number that shows the amount of replies in the thread, then you can choose to enter thread at first or last post.
Within a thread tap on the blue numbers at the bottom, that indicate the position in the thread like “182/185”. This will open a scrollbar for quick navigation.
I’ve been using Jolla from day one and I’m quite used to minor issues. I never experienced anything which rendered my phone completely useless.
The only thing that bugs me from day one is the missing bluetooth-support in android which I learned will probably never work.
Don’t forget that Android does not always run flawlessly as well. Even iOS has its issues especially when jailbroken. Love it, leave it or contribute. Fair enough.
The ranting is fun to read though. Many bugs could have been fixed in the same amount of time some people spent posting here:-)
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Did the devs give reason for why Bluetooth will not work for Android ?
I still would not call users expressing their experience as it relates to reported bugs as ranting but opinions are what they are.
These last two releases have been problematic for my hardware. For me its an indications of laziness when it comes to QA. Devs Prime focus should be Do no harm to the install base.
User’s focus should be to provide feedback. Unlike you I got here on day two. Things that were missing day one are still missing these many days later.
From the looks of it no one knows why…
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Yes. Many years ago.
The TL;DR is that supporting BT on both SFOS and AD is technically not feasible/very hard to do, as Linux proper and Android use different and incompatible software/drivers/apis to talk to BT devices.
It is not possible for two BT stacks to talk to the same hardware at the same time.
You could theoretically have BT only in AD and not on SFOS proper, or what we have now.
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What a pile of condescending bullshit.
We’re all consumers here, not developers. Many of us paid for a software license to get things fixed. It’s our way of contributing, lest you forget it. Another thing you forget is that Jolla makes money doing what they’re doing. They’re not a charity. If we’re expected to work on fixing things in a product they sell, they might as well pay us for the hours we’re going to spend, no? When you buy into the product, they don’t tell you that you may miss phone calls, or that there are dozens of other important everyday things that may break just because. You could spend your time writing a comprehensive “BEFORE YOU BUY” disclaimer for them to put in the store instead of “having fun reading rants” which helps no one.
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