[SOLVED] The new Jolla's 4.99eur/month Subscription model is too expensive for my budget

It is objectively bad. This is not a subjective take, you can measure it, it is way off the mark. If this is being fixed and the browser gets stable I have no complains anymore. But these points are critical, and even more critical is that they are not being adressed, for over a year now. Oh, and the damn echo, of course.

Yes it is bad.
There are reports here that newer Android base versions used as a foundation for the SFOS installation have fixed many of the criticized errors. This brings me back to the driver differences with AOSP. I wonder why Sony is running on two tracks regarding the drivers, as this also means double the effort. Why are the stock Android drivers different!?

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Yeah right. Or maybe those employees are better!

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Also in case of Rostelecom, majority share holder, technical data didn’t went to Russia. Ups, Aurora OS. Some people are so naive.

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Don’t bother man. There is a fucking Ticket for this issue, but some people still don’t get it. It makes no sense to continue the discussion.

I would like to see a completely normal store with completely normal support for paid applications like everywhere else, i.e. where developers can simply sell their applications. Jolla would obviously earn from it some decent percent, too, if they only bothered. But no.

What tells you that €4.99/month will suddenly change everything (or even just anything) vs. €49.99 paid upfront? It’s merely a different way they’ll be collecting money, nothing else. With such a small user base it CAN’T really mean any serious difference in the total amount collected, either. It’d take that everyone continues paying at least 11 months to get €4.99 more per user than currently from one-time payments. And what if many people turn out to stop paying after e.g. 6-8 months, disappointed with the usual permanent beta state of things, semi-functional camera, VoLTE, 5G, power drain, whatever (even if it isn’t Jolla to blame for it, as those issues are often in the underlying Sony drivers, but people don’t need to understand such things)? It’d mean that there might actually be even less income than now.

Swiching to monthly subscription DOES NOT GUARANTEE any changes on the development or user support quality side. It actually does not guarantee anything. They don’t explicitly promise anything in exchange, either.

Also note that Jolla will now assign part of their resources to the Mind2 development (and promotion, etc) and soon also to development of “Sailfish Core” for embedded devices. So I would actually expect LESS resources left for development of the actual SFOS for smartphones, and not more.

The subscription does not guarantee absolutely anything to anyone, if the user can stop paying anytime. It is a poor excuse to say that it is a promise or a warranty of anything.

How? By giving them €10 more per user per year vs. €49.99 upfront, but that ONLY IF all users keep paying whole 12 months and no one stops paying after a few months? With such a small user base (even if it relatively soon possibly gets some 10% or 20% or maybe even 30% bigger) what kind of amount can those €10 per user per year additionally bring Jolla? Enough to cover a few developers’ yearly salary or not even that?

Let’s be serious. It won’t change absolutely anything. It will only be a burden and annoyance to the users and not much besides.

On the 10 III, Sony DID fix ALL major issues (display banding/tint, echo, etc.) in Android 12, i.e. already in late 2022. Guess what, until today Jolla didn’t even bother to test and recommend installing SFOS on top of Android 12 rather than 11, which solves all those issues on SFOS. It needed ONLY that: test and officially recommend using Android 12 as a base for SFOS. But no. So majority of unaware 10 III users keep using SFOS on top of Android 11 and after 1,5 years are still troubled with echo, display tint / banding, hopeless fingerprint sensor operation, etc.

So no, it didn’t take Google’s money, resources, etc. But what can we expect if the 10 III is now officially referred to by Jolla as a LEGACY device.

Definitely not for those who always find excuses for literally everything.

Yes, they have. So, once again, the question is: why didn’t Jolla bother to even just test them and recommend to use them as base for SFOS? They’ve been available since late 2022, plenty of time, almost the entire 10 III’s SFOS life time.

It’s not like that. It means that SFOS uses drivers from BOTH the stock Android (that you flash SFOS on top of), and ALSO from the Sony binaries that you flash along with SFOS to the oem_a partition (which replaces some stock drivers there). Clearly, the drivers responsible specifically for the display tint/banding issue and the in-call echo cancellation issue that SFOS uses are in the stock Sony Android (and - clearly - they must be on some other partition that doesn’t get wiped by SFOS or Sony blobs if SFOS makes use of them) and not in the Sony binary blobs flashed to the oem partitions, if it is flasing the underlying Android 12 OS and NOT the binary blobs what fixes those issues in SFOS.

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[quote=“wetab73, post:65, topic:18674”]
How? By giving them €10 more per user per year vs. €49.99 upfront, but that ONLY IF all users keep paying whole 12 months and no one stops paying after a few months? With such a small user base (even if it relatively soon possibly gets some 10% or 20% or maybe even 30% bigger) what kind of amount can those €10 per user per year additionally bring Jolla? Enough to cover a few developers’ yearly salary or not even that?

Let’s be serious. It won’t change absolutely anything. It will only be a burden and annoyance to the users and not much besides.[/quote]

Simply put; Its a reliable source of revenue rather than sporadic payments. Something you can actually make proper business and expense plans based on. Having to depend on getting new ports, which all add to the maintenance burden, regularly as Sony updates its model lineup across the year.

Mind you, my current “daily driver” is an original Xperia 10 I got and put SailfishOS on when support arrived so its most definitely not a case of getting just 60€ a year in 5€ installments rather than 50€ in one lump sum. Sure, I could have created eWaste by upgrading from a perfectly functional device with (IMHO) the best design of any Xperia 10 device, but I just didn’t feel like it.

Tt may be annoying, but the current model clearly isn’t working from a business perspective. A 50€ lump sum every few years with a userbase this small simply isn’t paying enough to keep the lights on. You can keep insisting they should continue as before and go out of business entirely, but I actually like SailfishOS and would prefer to continue using it even if it costs me half a basic streaming service every month.

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Ok, monthly payment for something, what goes from bad to worse everyday, is nightmare. But thinking is better than pay bigger amount at first. You can try it and after few months you’ll see. Now I’m looking for alternatives with some more secure os than android. Every OS I’m reading about has lot od advantages in comparision to the current Sailfish (not so user friendly, any bluetooth support for smart devices, lot of bugs, not working gps, very limited hardware option etc.). In this thread, I read about leaving Russian impact in company and changing it to US. US has the most controlled regime nowadays and US socialeconomic philosophy is the way to hell. Russia seems in lot of aspects as a paradise compare to this. And that is further argument for consider to stay with Sailfish.

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That’s iOS. Only.

Good riddance.

Blaming the OS for this is beyond ignorant.

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Haha, good joke. Even Apple is infected with the american imperialism.

Just type “apple security flaws” in a search engine of your choice, there is your “more secure os than android”.

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That last nonsense-rant is flag-worthy and off topic.
The technical aspects and spamtastic UIs is what invalidates Android and iOS.

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Speaking the truth may hurt but is never flag-worthy. So don’t kill the messenger.

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If you can’t tolerate other opinions, grow up. This flagging kindergarten has to stop, it’s annoying as hell.

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Since ever we have a semi developed product in continious evollution. Thus it is kind of investment in experiment with no deadline for completion, nor payment for achievement.

What do you mean by “sporadic payments”? Those who want to buy the licence simply buy it, either by paying once in whole and upfront, or by paying in parts monthly if Jolla enforces so by removing any other payment options. But it is EXACTLY the same user base, the exact same number of people, i.e. those who WANT to pay rather than use the free version. The subscription model doesn’t change absolutely ANYTHING in this regard - it surely won’t make substantially more people pay than those who were buying the “perpetual” licence, especially that subscription is actually considerably more expensive already after 10 months.

On the contrary, the one-time upfront licence purchase once paid in whole remains in Jolla’s hands forever, whereas monthly payments can be just stopped at literally any time, for a multitude of reasons - dissatisfaction of the user due to bugs and issues, losing or breaking the phone, death or illness, switching to other device / OS, getting into financial problems and having to reduce expenses, and a DAMN LOT more. Are you really telling me that monthly payments are more predictable than paying all in advance? I seriously don’t think so, especially in this specific case of super-tiny and rather FIXED group of paying / supporting users. That they’ve only ordered 1000 units of the Community Phone (so called “first batch” but I seriously doubt that there will be a second one) is a good indication of how many of those who financially support Jolla really are out there.

Mind you, I do not think that it is a typical case. Just look at the forums and you’ll notice that majority of people have been owning the 10 III now. Those who keep using ancient 6- or 8- years old phones as their main device are minority.

That’s obviously your free choice to keep using it forever. Still, it doesn’t make you a typical and representative case. During the time you’ve been sticking with your X10, I’ve used the XA2, then the 10 III, and now the 10 V delivery is pending.

Please also remember, that either those €49.99 or soon those €5/month are in fact for the COMMERCIAL COMPONENTS only, namely AppSuport and MS Exchange. Not even for the XT9 text prediction anymore on the new Xperias as they will remove it, allegedly due to “licensing issues”.

So maybe Jolla should change something else in their business model, maybe start charging for some more components than just AppSupport and MS Exchange, or for the entire OS, as those who do not need AppSupport or MS Exchange have been using Sailfish OS completely for free for years and were never expected to pay ANYTHING.

So on one hand for years they’ve been consciously limiting the group of their PAYING CUSTOMERS to just those who pay for AppSupport rather than the entire OS user base, and on the other hand they’ve been perpetually whining about lack of funds for development. THAT’S the problem, and not whether those who want AppSupport are paying for it monthly or at once.

Over a decade of no support for commercial applications in their store, of which they might be earning some 30-40% per sale, no paid applications from Jolla themselves (e.g. the Weather app whose price might easily cover its API costs + some more, but no, Jolla just prefers to remove it and that’s it).

There have always been (and there still are) LOTS of ways for Jolla to establish some multiple stable revenue streams.

And no, enforcing monthly payments from only AppSupport / MS Exchange users (as that’s what one’s payment gives him in return) CAN NOT and WILL NOT bring Jolla any SERIOUS increase of revenue, because it is a further SUB-GROUP of SFOS user base, i.e. something even smaller than the tiny group of people using SFOS. The whole rest, not using those two commercial components, keep using SFOS for free and not participating in anything. For years.

So enforcing undesired and disliked by many people subscriptions only on those who have always been paying is like PENALIZING those who have always paid and supported Jolla, while the whole rest who never paid and have always used SFOS X for free still won’t give a flying **** and will continue using it for free. I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out to be a larger group than those who pay. How hilarious it is.

So, once again, Jolla should reach out for additional revenue streams ELSEWHERE than by penalizing the tiny group of their most devoted and supporting users, and expecting that they keep financing thousands of those who for years have been using SFOS for free, never bought any licence and will not pay any subscription, either. Putting the entire financial burden only upon their most devoted user group is not just economically UNVIABLE, but also simply dishonest.

What isn’t working is the business model of only charging for the AppSupport / MS Exchange, while letting everything else to be used completely for free by anyone. Hence the tiny sub-group of AppSupport users forced to finance thousands of users of the “free version” (not using AppSuport at all, or pirating it, or using Waydroid, or whatever). Whereas there’s a multitude of ways those UNPAYING users could (and should) be also enabled to participate in funding the OS development.

Yeah, so let’s keep making AppSupport / MS Exchange users ONLY (a few thousand people or so) pay more and more and continue funding the entire OS maintenance and development cost, while the whole rest continues not to pay anything as there is nothing else to pay for, even if they wanted, and actually not even any incentive to do it. Pretty wise and honest, a perfectly reasonable business model.

I never said that they should continue as before. I’m saying that FINALLY other revenue streams should be enabled: paid applications in the store (on which Jolla could easily be taking 30-40% commission), paid major OS updates, paid Jolla applications (e.g. Jolla’s Weather as a paid app, covering the API cost and maybe bringing some profit), paid services (e.g. prioritized Helpdesk support) and LOTS more. All of which they NEVER bothered to even try, but instead for many years they’ve been expecting only the CORE COMMUNITY of most devoted SFOS users to PERPETUALLY fund their entire existence. Which is quite awful actually.

You can pay as much as you want. It will never be enough to secure Jolla’s existence if it is limited to just AppSupport / MS Exchange licence buyers (or now subscribers), while everyone else is provided the entire OS for free and not required (or even just enabled) in any other way to participate in SFOS maintenance and development cost by paying for literally anything. Maybe you belong to that SUPER-TINY group of people VOLUNTARILY willing to support Jolla just because you use Sailfish OS and want it to survive and further develop, but be sure that majority of people will not pay a single buck if it is not required.

So keep being shaved like a sheep (more and more, as just switching to subscriptions surely won’t help much, and regularly increasing the fees will surely occur), it won’t do anything as long as everyone else but AppSupport users is given SFOS for free and doesn’t give a flying **** about how much YOU pay and whether you pay upfront or monthly.

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Citation needed.  

But some people naively think that switching to monthly subscriptions will MAGICALLY change it, especially now that half of their developers will have to be busy with Mind2 and Safilsh Core (embedded version).

Unless there’s a huge sudden growth of their customer base (ha ha ha), it’ll take whopping 10 months starting from August (when paid components for the 10 IV / V come out) for Jolla to collect the same amount of money from selling 10 IV / V subscriptions as what they would instantly earn from selling 10 IV / V licences paid in whole upfront. But even that only assuming that all the users accept subscriptions (which as we see won’t be the case) and that all those users continue to pay 10 months and beyond, rather than stop paying sooner than that.

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A quote from @rainemak:

All these changes are resulting a temporary discontinuation of predictive text input for new Sailfish X license buyers. We’re looking for a solution for this temporary discontinuation. In parallel, we are looking for a new modern solution for predictive text input but replacing it with a completely new implementation will take time. Once we get predictive text input issues fixed, we provide it for users who are now buying Sailfish X license. We are working hard on the new setup and will keep you informed about the progress.

Present Sailfish X license holders will experience no impact on predictive text input; this functionality will continue to operate as before.

Source:

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So they do AI, but the are not able to doa f***ing predective text engine? Now I have huge doubts of the mind2 capabilities.

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They surely are. Considering that the text engine continues to work for holders of existing licences, also under the new 4.6 OS, and only new licences lack it, then it means that the problem isn’t of technical matter but it is purely a financial thing. I mean, just like Weather app API access, they problably didn’t want to pay licence fees for XT9 anymore, so they’ve just dropped it. IIRC, XT9 was licenced from Nuance, acquired by Microsoft a few years ago.

As in “One lump sum every 1-5 years” rather than a predictable revenue stream you can hire people to work on SailfishOS knowing you’re going to be able to make payroll every month. Rather than having to factor in a huge amount of uncertainty where you either have to keep a large buffer in case you have a few “lean” months or having to let go and re-hire people constantly.

Normal people also don’t behave like children and don’t drop mobile platforms on a temper tantrum like you seem to do.

The people on dedicated forums are inevitably going to be the most dedicated users who are also the most eager to try it out on new devices. Not your average ones, leading to a large selection bias for people constantly swapping devices.

Those commercial components, especially Android support, is what makes SailfishOS actually usable as a daily driver to most people. We live in world where so much stuff is done thru mobile apps and to be able to run either Android or iOS apps is vital. Most people will not go thru the hassle of keeping multiple devices on them either.

SailfishOS without the commercial components is essentially hobbyist use. Something you may use for fun or out of curiosity, but it’s not something you’re gonna “daily drive” unless you’re stupid or insane. The idea that there’s this mass of people using SailfishOS without the commercial components is quite frankly laughable. SailfishOS is simply not “daily drivable” for normal people without them.

Let’s also not forget that SailfishOS is also a very, very small platform run by an equally small company. If you’ve ever tried to set up online payments for a small business you’ll know its a huge hassle and as a small company you easily end up paying something like 30% just to your payment processor. I have and I can describe the experience in one word; Pain. Sure, if you’re Google, Apple or Microsoft you can leverage your size to get a deal that’s more like 5% or even set up your own payment processing. But if you’re a company that’s never been more than a few dozen people you’re out of luck and the best you can do is going to make the industry 70-30 split look good for developers.

Quite frankly, you seem to be massively entitled and totally delusional if you think there actually is any significant number of people using SailfishOS without the commercial components. There is no large number of “freeloaders” who get it for free. The only people who do are ones just trying it out and the development are people like you and me. If the funding coming from us isn’t enough, its simply entitled to think that “Hey, someone else should have to pay for Jolla to keep the lights on”. Either pay up or shut up.

Being able to understand someone else’s situation and why they’re doing what they’re doing is not being a “shaved sheep”, it’s something called “empathy” and “being an adult”. Not an autistic man-child like yourself.

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