He did say he was happily paying 50€ so pls don’t exaggerate
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I can only repost what I wrote in another thread:
Unfortunately, I will not accept paying a monthly subscription. I never do it, I’ve never ever done it. Neither is it acceptable for me to authorize any entity to repeatedly charge my credit card without me even remembering about it, nor do I want to remember doing it manually each month, and even if I remember, I just don’t want to be bothered with it. I just don’t, period. I want to pay ONCE (as much as it takes, obviously within reasonable limits) and FORGET.
So, Jolla, kindly please, keep a one-time payment option. I understand inflation and all that cr*p, so I am ready to (quite happily) pay more than what it’s been so far, but as a one-time payment only.
Or, alternatively, I am ready to pay a one-time licence fee, plus some acceptably low fee per updates.
But that’s it. I will NOT pay montly, I am very sorry but just no. I’ve had three devices, so it’s been three licences bought by me so far, plus the Jolla 1 bought in 2013 for $399 or what was its price (the very first batch).
I might - and just MIGHT - consider whether a YEARLY subscription might be acceptable for me. But certainly not monthly. And if yearly, then certainly not an amount equal to 12 * monthly fee, but less, because I am paying in whole in advance, i.e. guaranteeing that I won’t stop paying after a month or two like those who pay monthly can (and surely quite some of them will) do.
So, once again, Jolla, please rethink this REALLY BAD decision and keep the standard one-time licence purchase in addition to your monthly subscription experiments. Please give everyone the choice. Most of us will surely understand and accept if the price of such one-time licence fee gets (reasonably) higher than now or if there’s a fee required for major updates, and we’ll pay it just to support you. But please do not enforce subscription payments that quite many of your devoted users do not accept. It won’t do any good, and I guess there’s no room for further mistakes.
Oh, and BTW, isn’t the delay in introducing the commercial parts for the new devices until August needed to implement in them mechanisms ceasing their functionality when one doesn’t pay the monthly fee? Just asking, to make it clear.
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I find it really hard to swallow for various reasons.
First, there’s the whole 60€/year, provided there is no price revision “because inflation or whatever”. Yeah some in europe might be able to afford, but we’re not able to afford when everybody want to have their 5€/month. Especially since those last years weren’t kind to anybody and there’s not much promise for the next ones.
And that a LOT of money to pay given the issues I went through with my Saifish installed phones: the Jolla was a marvel, but afterwards (X & XA2 user) it was constant issues (call disconnections, GPS acquisition could take hours, navigation app freeze, touchscreen issues, camera issues, browser killed all the time, the weather fiasco, and of course the Qt state… at least I wasn’t involved in the tablet debacle). Continuing to use my devices was challenging, but I persisted. If I reminded myself that I’m paying 60€/y for this, I would not.
Then, there’s a lot of trust issues. First, the way it’s brought: much fanfare about the AI product & community phone (both of which merits some discussion), and I see the new subscription as a note and a lot of uncertainties at first (like would AppSupport would work).
And finally, here’s the thing: I can’t even be convinced this is for the good of SailfishOS as a phone OS. Now Jolla want to be in the AI segment: fine, but I’m not paying to fund AI product development and get some rpm/curl patch releases in return.
Then again, if that’s an option, I might consider a periodic update in december for 5€, but will check other alternatives – but for certain, I will not be advocating SailfishOS anymore.
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With the 10 III they didn’t fix actually ANY of the most serious issues. Power consumption not even touched, VoLTE mostly renamed (beta part dropped) but majority of issues left unsolved. Same for cameras. Echo and display tint/banding fortunately fixed by Sony, but Jolla didn’t even bother to test and recommend using those newer Android versions where those issues were fixed by Sony, so many users don’t even know and continue using SFOS on top of Android 11 and dealing with echo and display issues.
And today the 10 III becomes the LEGACY device ( that’s how it is being called in the presentation) because now it’s time for all that new and shiny €5 a month subscription. And not much else because the 10 IV and V don’t really differ much from the 10 III in terms of their performance or features, so how can SFOS give much more on them than on the LEGACY 10 III…? OK, 5.x kernel, but that’s about it.
And what is the guarantee that for those €5 a month (which soon may become €6 or 8 because you know inflation, climate change, Putin, imigrants and apocalypse) the 10 V will get ANY BETTER support than what the 10 III got for €49 paid upfont? IMO absolutely none.
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Thats actually what I have thought. I wouldnt mind the 5 €/mo if they bring bugfixes and updates for the device. I own the X10 III for about 1,5 years and I think there was just one noticeable update. Not counting eula update etc... I think the weather app issue isnt fixed either, is it? For months now? I wont pay 60 € per update. I never have liked iOS or Android but if Jolla won`t bring updates and bugfixes regularly, I will leave the plattform.
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Since SailfishOS is something I use every day, 5€/month to have an updated system are a fair price for me.
HOWEVER
in this case I cannot pass over the current shortcomings of AppSupport, which force me to carry an Android backup phone. Namely, these are:
- No Bluetooth support (so no smartwatch connection with Android apps)
- No USB support (so no Android Auto)
- No NFC support (so no smart payments)
Solve these and I will be happy to pay a monthly or yearly fee.
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This could be a great chance for Jolla to go back to the original monthly (smaller) updates cycle instead of the current one or two bigger updates per year to give people more value for their monthly subscription and to push fixes to issues out faster.
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Are you aware that there was a community survey and people preferred it the other way round?
I’m a little out of the loop here…
Does this affect someone who already has a phone & a (one time paid) license?
I got my current license for my current XA2 about a year ago.
If not now, will it affect me at some point?
TIA
No. This is for future devices
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But who and where guarantees that 5€/month instead of 49.99€ upfront will result in any better or more frequent updates? Is there any such obligation in the EULA, or any other such commitment stated elsewhere? I doubt if those 5€/month payments will actually change anything vs. how it’s been so far.
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My company pays €10,000 per year for 6 licenses of the OrCAD software by Cadence, just for support and updates. The same holds true for all professional CAD software. Well, almost all, since ADS by Keysight costs twice that amount for one license and after one year it stops working, not just updating. If you want updates, you fund them. If you don’t pay, you are stuck with what you bought, just like your phone or your car.
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I do EXACTLY THAT by paying full licence price upfront. I fund it the very day I buy the licence.
Why paying full requested amount upfront (like what I did three times already for three SFOS phones and expected to do yet another time for the ordered 10 V) is what you refer to as “you don’t pay”? This is utter nonsense.
Just like it is nonsense to say that getting the entire requested price upfront (equal to 10 or 12 or 15 monthly fees, or whatever they ask) is “less predictable” for a company than monthly fees that every user can stop paying at literally any time, e.g. after just two months.
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This reply has nothing to do with what I wrote and I was not referring to your specific case.
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My case isn’t specific. It is every licenced SFOS user’s case. We all did fund SFOS development by buying its licence (as opposed to those who have been only using the free version). Whether it was enough money for Jolla or not wasn’t really dependent on us but on Jolla who set the licence price and had been doing several other things in a way directly affecting the size of their customer base.
If asked to pay (reasonably) more for a licence, I’d most probably do it. And so I’d do if asked to renew the licence e.g. after a year or two. But definitely not monthly, weekly or daily, or any other such cr*p. It’s a smartphone OS, not a porn website or VOD service.
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Just a question - if you can pay the year up front would that still be bad? (of course you could also do what the solution of the topic suggests though that would be less supportive of the eco system)
Over the years the community has felt neglected because they were not the main source of income for Jolla and Jolla from it’s side was plagued with bad financials, many members of the community practically begged Jolla to give them a way to support them more now that has been introduced.
Also note how several of you have pointed out the very long hardware support cycles (7 years), it is probably very unsustainable to have a single payment over such a long period, also all the “old” devices are grandfathered, personally my daily driver is a 10ii which is still in perfect working order and I’m not very interested in a new device but I would like to support further development of SFOS especially now that by the sound of it more can and hopefully will become OSS (note how it was mentioned that GPL3 is no longer an obstacle for the JollyBoys).
In the end the subscription model is considered better by most companies because it provides a certain level of semi-guaranteed income, to give a different example I am currently not employed (programmer/linux/hpc admin if anyone is interested dm) and am trying both to setup my own thing or to find a job, for my own thing I aim to work with clients on a initial work fee+retainer basis thus I guarantee a minimum level of income for the period of the retainer.
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This is the absolute worst thing, I bought the 10 III because Jolla promised in their blog that it would be the best Sailfish phone ever, even more efficient than the 10 II. It is my most expensive phone so far and it is utter crap, the battery does last maybe three days, whereas with android a week is easily achieveable. THIS IS THE WORST THING EVER, I initially switched to sailfish because of the efficiency, for privacy you do not need Jolla at all, as there are even better alternatives.
The blog post:
the amazing effort Jolla’s adaptation team has put into making the Xperia 10 III run as efficiently as possible
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I understand you and I can relate as well, but was there ever any efficient sailfish device?
Literally every android device I had was at least twice as good with battery life before installing sailfish if not more.
Or maybe you mean that you felt misled by the “efficiency” statement?
Yes, back in the days Sailfish was way more efficient than Android, because Android is a stupid system where a virtual machine runs on Linux. Only reason for this is money, they wanted to have all the dumb and cheap Java developers for application development. The Jolla 1 was one of the most efficient phones at the time, more than doubling the runtime compared to Android.
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Why not give us a choice, Jolla?
Put a price tag on perpetual licence (with no subscription), and see who bites…
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