Please refrain from using this group for general discussion about specific banking apps or make any wish lists for apps/functionalities.
! Work Group has moved to a group chat here in the Sailfish OS Forum. If you have valuable contacts, ideas and especially if you have programming skills on Android/AAS/Sailfish - please reply to this thread and you can be added to the group chat. !
This thread is for anyone who wants to take part in a Work Group to:
establish connection between payment and banking app providers and Sailfish
promote awareness of Sailfish among payment system developers
Ideas for Work Group to achieve:
(The list is created by @Damien_Jolla where all the credit belongs to)
Fast and secure way to publish an existing Android app to a Jolla controlled store.
Documentation of security policies and best practises for publishing a sensitive Android app for use on SF.
Engaging with public bodies to make sure every citizen can use their identification/services app on SF.
Engaging in partnerships for EU-subsidised R&D projects that eg Jolla Phones with Euro Office and Nextcloud native integrations to a large number of civil servants who are migrating under the digital sovereignty movement.
Working with like minded phone makers (Fairphone eg) to broaden the hardware offering.
Creating a touch point for Jolla users to suggest apps for active support in porting to SF.
Create a number of national campaigns with national partners to make sure (as an example) that all Finnish banks and public services are available and working on SF. Then go for each country in the EU following a certain priority list based on user numbers.
Thanks for starting the topic and taking the initiative. Just to make sure: my list is just a quick brain dump, so please don’t see it as definitive… I’m sure the community can add to or improve the list of actions.
As for the Finnish part, I’m afraid I cannot really help. I’m Dutch and don’t speak Finnish or Swedish.
I will repost this topic in a Dutch/Flemmish tech site and see if there are more Dutch enthusiasts who can help for the Dutch and Belgian ecosystems.
I think we should ideally have a group with members from different countries to exchange experience with each others. Further on this would not be just about Finland but about all countries where Sailfish is used.
The group should of course cooperate with Jolla but it would also need to have some programmers on call if a institution wants to cooperate in changing their Android app or try having a Sailfish app - or if they just want technical consultation.
Thanks for the comments, I updated name of the thread to not specify Finland anymore and changed some wordings in the first post.
@Jolla@rainemak Does Jolla have interest or possibility to designate a contact person for this work group? Furthermore, could the work group represent Sailfish OS in discussions with banking companies? (if there is a Jolla employee in the group?)
I’m curious whether this is actually an sfos-centric project, or whether this is meant to promote non-Google methods of establishing trust with devices more widely for the purposes of banking apps and other sensitive apps? Or browser-based services for that matter.
15k people running sfos isn’t going to be a compelling group to try to accommodate. On the other hand 200-300 million European online banking users is a compelling target group.
Also, it’s important to consider that we don’t want to simply push another monopoly in Europe / the open alternative space. We might need to consider promoting both Yubi key and Nitro key, for example, since each meets our desire to enable people to break free from the US big tech duopoly.
You’re not forced to use the ING Banking app. They also offer a Photo TAN generator, and then you can use it with any web browser or operating system. It works with the Sailfish OS web browser. I hope they stay on this path.
I think there are (at least) two problems to be solved, which are connected to some extent:
banking applications tend to refuse to start on non standard Android/iOS operating systems (rooted, or development builds)
Google Wallet integration (with NFC) of main card suppliers, to be able to use the phone as a virtual card.
As I don’t use AppSupport at all (my Sailfish OS phones are for experimenting only) I don’t know if any if these could be solved easily. What is the status of the NFC support and operating system / application security within AppSupport?
I’m not talking about the browser based clients, I believe there are no or just a few restrictions in that area.
Google wallet probably will never happen, unless you install Google’s play services, which kind of fights against the idea of degoogling. But the first one is real problem, seem to be somewhat country specific. And I think no.1 is the one this group are targeting to get fixed
Yes, I agree. Number one is the priority. You shouldn’t need to go through Google or Apple to get through the front door of your bank (app). If that is the only thing those tech companies are doing in the process, there should be another way to accomplish that.
Myself, I don’t care toooo much if I have to use an Android app. Android just becomes sort of programming environment if you remove the gatekeeper function. AAS doesn’t need to talk to Google then, so it seems okay. Obviously, ‘no-Google’ would be even better, but it doesn’t seem necessary or expedient to say ‘never Google’ here at the start.
Ah yes, wallets are indeed something that many people like to use. However, I’m not sure that it should be Google Wallet.
I do think Garmin Pay should work, as the payment is handled by the wearable itself. The Android app for Garmin does work and you should be able to add cards via the app on Sailfish.
So perhaps that is an avenue to pursue if there are technical issues with the nfc on the Jolla itself.
Perhaps there could be a Payment TOH that circumvents those issues??? Just an idea.
While I greet the idea of degoogling, payment using the phone is a must nowadays. And I doubt Jolla could force the card companies to provide connectivity to another platform. So Google Wallet integration is the only way to have the same user experience on SFOS, unfortunately.
I would argue that it isn’t deal breaker for over 50% of users. And while Jolla aims for niche market I don’t think it will change. But digital euro might bring improvements here
I do. One of the reasons I am here for 12 years is that I want to avoid this Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient monopolist. We did a ‘Google exam’ with an investigative journalist. Google is evil. We protested against its practices.
I have no Google account and will not get one. I will pay with Ideal/Wero.
I see banking and tap-to-pay as two separate issues, though related. Both are important, but the venn diagram isn’t a perfect circle.
Moms and dads need their internet banking and ID apps to works, in addition to all the people in the middle and start of life. I think banking is the bigger market, if we think about how to get a bank to listen.
Are there overlaps in the technical problems needing solving for the two?
I get you, but I also like the idea of exploiting Google’s own work against itself in the form of enabling useful apps outside of the Googleverse. When organizations (finally) see that ‘easy’ and ‘cheap’ development paths are actually neither, then the dividends will be reaped. As recently as today I was faced with colleagues who received the right information too early and weren’t able to understand that it was important. In the meantime it’s important for us to be constructive as well as vigilant.
I think banking is the bigger market, if we think about how to get a bank to listen.