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#146

The problem is that the whole point for a subscription model is purely based on speculation and wishful thinking.

We don’t have any numbers, so my guess is as good as anyone’s: renting out the software will provide little to no financial gain for Jolla. Milking the community will however hurt the community and in turn Jolla, which relies on the tens of thousands of hours of free labour provided by this community.

That number is a conservative estimate based on my own contributions - the real value is likely to be much higher. There simply is no “value to users” (like an AI assistant * smh *) that Jolla could provide which would outweigh the cost of harming the community and losing contributions. So yes, I am strictly against that.

It seems Jolla is considering going the route of enshittification. Introducing a subscription model plus introducing paid apps would just accelerate that process. No, thanks.

7 Likes
#147

Interesting discussion and would like to voice my opinion as well.

For years I have been wondering on how Jolla could make money from SFOS. Earlier they tried to sell it to some larger phone makers or some governments/corporations. From what I could read on the topic, that doesn’t seem to be going rather well. Move to Automotive may work out, but we will have to wait and see. But again, automotive is moved into separate entity, as far as I understood.

In this context, @ichthyosaurus comment regarding numbers and how much could it offset the developer costs is a good one. We have to remember, that development of SFOS does take developer time and due to this investment of Jolla we can use Linux-based mobile OS. There is a good mix of core apps developed by Jolla and community-developed apps. While, as a part of a community, I have a day job to enjoy and support me, Jolla devs are working on SFOS. And, in principle, if we want to use SFOS we have to have some way to pay for these developers working on OS that we like. Unless, we manage to contribute through development/translation/testing to make the product into such a shape that Jolla can sell it somewhere and make SFOS eco-system stronger.

I have no idea how many users are we. I have some internal guess, but it is rather small. Which would mean rather small income from subscriptions. Looks like many are opposing it for one reason or another. I would support it for the reasons listed above in this case. Whether it would make any difference, that’s hard to say. Ideally, I would love to get to know more regarding the financial state and how Jolla plans to make sure that they are in profit. If it would involve open-sourcing closed OS bits that would be awesome. As in the end of the day, I would like to use open-sourced OS on my phone that would work well for me.

18 Likes
#148

I think that despiite offering a paying flashing service for devices or crowdfunding for functions. All other solutions would mean an abonnement or regular costs for the user. Lets think back in times. You bought a Nokia device and got updates as long as the device was supported and this for Nokia was quite a long time. Now you should not only buy the device and flash your phone os yourself, but then also pay a regularr fee. I think this will all scare people off, and it also gets far away from this free and open source character of Jolla and the community. If i was Jolla i would offer a free base os, barebone SFOS (without Glacier UX, Android Support, Text predicting) paying flashing service, and then special services such as AI assistant, cloud storage VPN, secure messaging, secure mailing, proxy services. This would give one image and one direction. Otherwise it makes Jolla look like a company that is desperately searching for money, and trying every way. And like i understood, Jolla positionned itself in a very privacy aware community, which means user data is a taboo, otherwise you could also buy an Android device. So therefore the USPs of Sailfish OS should be, an opensource base, high focus on privacy, and then the possibility of a high user adaptation. I think people are not really ready to pay money for base stuff, but as soon as you feed an interest of them, they will be ready to wether put a monthly fee or also per feature cost, to get the functions they desire. This would mean, if you want to highly adapt your phone in functionality and services you have to pay. If you see Apple, people are paying a lot of money to sit in a walled garded, but they willingly pay the money, because its great hardware and software.

3 Likes
#149

Start selling merch

Same as poor musician have to do nowadays.

But it seems to work for them and it spreads the word

Some t shirts and hoodies for start

11 Likes
#150

Not a bad idea! I would actually buy a t-shirt… as long as it’s not pink or red. :wink:

#151

There was already a lot of interest in Sailfish T-shirts, but unfortunately nothing came of it.
Sailfish OS 3 T-shirts

1 Like
#152

Jolla has done that already. We have a Jolla hat. Jolla had stickers, etc.
But this is all not serious. The product itself should be attractive to a wider public. Therefore, I cannot say that often enough, a device ready with Sailfish should be on the market. Is it only for tinkerers or is it also for your mum? Will it be suitable for refugees, ministers, teachers, nurses, builders? That’s the question. If Jolla believe it has something special that could be of use to everyone, make it attractive to everyone. Focus on privacy, safety and ease of use, on beauty. But do not keep it for a select public of tech experts.

8 Likes
#153

The problem with providing hardware is that it moves Jolla away from their core expertise: making software.

They would probably have to hire someone(s) to acquire, flash & dispatch devices, to make how much profit, €50 each?
The retail price would have to be close to the cost of device + €50 license fee, otherwise a lot of people will just buy locally and download the release.
After selling the device, Jolla would have to provide a warranty, which Sony themselves won’t support as the bootloader is unlocked.

I don’t know if you remember the Jolla Tablet, but that was a big lesson for them. It cost a lot of goodwill with the community, and took them years to refund the sums owed back to backers

7 Likes
#154

As the discussion drifts towards “other business models”, I take the opportunity to ask if there is any known reason for Jolla not selling outside EU? Purism sells hardware and services in USA, there is a market for alternative OSes. According to several users of the forum, the 10iii works, at least in big cities.

To make a connection to the topic… I think subscriptions in general have high degree of acceptance in USA.

#155

The US is huge and entire regions use completely different wireless bands, even on the same carrier. For instance I am from a state in the middle of the country where there are four possible carriers. At&t, Verizion, T-Mobile, and US Cellular. Most of my state, Nebraska, is rural. And even in the two large cities, Omaha and Lincoln, none of the carriers use more than 1 or 2 bands that the 10II or 10III use. But states on the coasts use bands that have more overlap with the newer 10 series phones. I personally would be more than happy to spend 5-10 Euro to support Jolla and get official support (or at least volte) on a community device that is more realistic to use.

#156

But why geoblocking the purchase? At the point of purchase, the user has the official device in hands, has checked it is good enough for their use case. Why would Jolla refuse to let them install and try the OS?

I thought there would be a legal reason, for example they only purchased the rights from Sony for the EU region, or political reasons due to the previous investors.

#157

:person_facepalming:

Have you considered that other markets might have rules and legislation that Jolla can’t comply with; and/or has not yet figured out if they comply with?

Let’s take the basic big ones as an example: silly software patents and taxation. US companies do this all the time, and you rarely hear anyone complain - it’s just the way it is. If they at least pretend to try it is often good enough to keep those kind of issues at bay.

I’ll stop there because it’s getting off topic.

3 Likes
#158

I would pay a subscription, but will also expect something in return.
I like the browser user interface but annoing as hell how it crashes all running apps.
Im forced to use android (fennec) to read a newspaper I subscibe, jolla browser simply cannot use their login system.
4g calling still in beta after now 2 years, I still cannot send sms unless switch it off.
Bluetooth LE, not supported properly. Everything moves away from traditional Bluetooth soon audio moved to LE as well.
Cant keep connection in standby using kuri heart rate. Amazfish I gave up getting to run.

I have been on the journey since N9 but sometimes I consider if it worth all the troubles or I should switch to some degoogle android instead.

2 Likes
#159

I’m willing to pay yearly. In fact, I did so more or less during past few years. Jolla shop shows purchases in 2017, '19, '21, '23. SailfishOS is my daily driver for both private and business use.

I need Jolla in good shape or I’ll have to switch to the dark side some day…

So, Sailors: if you set up a voluntary contribution system, count me in.

2 Likes
#160

I won’t insult you, but you can imagine

Julla has no consumer base to be able to sustain the cost related to producing the hardware.
They tried and almost went broke.

2 Likes
#161

Preflashed is a must. Selling something that does not work out of the box is considered generally insane in the modern age – and Sailfish can be a hoop-jumping mess to get to work properly (with downgrading and non-data USB cables).

In the short term, Jolla should outsource it to the community. People should be buying old XA2s & 10 iiis off eBay, flashing them and selling them through the website. The market is probably small enough for one person to do part-time.

3 Likes
#162

If you want pre flashed phones, there already is an option.

5 Likes
#163

Drop the AI stuff from the marketing. It is not a mobile technology. It will end up the same way as crypto.

Focus on supporting and promoting open standards and protocols as opposed the walled high-gardens that are plaguing the internet today. Even the EU is supporting similar initiatives. Open banking APIs, payments, open identity management (id card, driver’s license, etc.), privacy and security.

Also I would totally buy some good quality SFOS merch :slight_smile: If some low grade youtuber channels can sell merch you can do it too. There were some really cool t-shirt designs in the past.

13 Likes
#164

Don’t worry, I feel not insulted at all. I asked the question in 2020 and many different answers came. In the meantime the situation of Jolla has changed. A fresh start could be possible.

2 Likes
#165

I now have my sim in a Volla phone. Everything works fine, a relief, except the AI on the replacement of apps. That’s a nuisance. I can’t organise the place of apps myself. Apps are constantly changing of place. Twice used an app means that it comes on the front page while I don’t use it anymore for a month. The apps are in alphabetical order, that’s the only way to find an app. This is an example of useless AI.

2 Likes