That’s the problem with a forum. Always someone, or more people, say ‘I don’t want this or that’. What is best businesswise?
I would opt for a Jolla 2, with crowdfunding, not on those narrow Sony’s but on a Gigaset, a company ‘around the corner’. They customise, so Jolla can have a say in it. Their hardware is more sustainable than Sony’s. And sustainability is what Jolla/Sailfish needs, because on hardware that lasts longer Jolla can focus better on developing and stabilising the OS.
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i wouldn’t mind 4-5 year HW cycles at all. As long as the HW is reliable, available and of good quality. And sanely sized of course.
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A subscription model creates expectations as we become “clients” and no longer “licensees” as @nephros mentioned. Most of the comments here followed this logic, i.e. expecting certain upgrades or changes, features, road-map, etc. in return for the subscription… This might end up being more work (Expensive) than it’s worth for Jolla, but it’s their decision to take.
In my opinion the first priority should be to expand the license base, i.e. sell more licenses in more territories. Limiting sales to Europe also limits the possible user base.
Along with this, add an option for anyone to make donations to Jolla if they would want to. No Jolla account needed, no licenses that are bought but possibly never used, etc. This will also allow anyone to donate any amount they feel comfortable with whenever they can afford it.
The idea of pre-flashed devices sold by Jolla and shipped anywhere would be ideal, but I guess logistically and financially difficult for Jolla to achieve. Without this though, Sailfish would most-likely remain more of a niche market and stunt its broader adoption.
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I’d pay 2€…5€/mo for SFOS, and a few dollars extra for Android App Support too. Likely a bit more, if there’s a real incentive to it. Let’s say, towards supporting newer device firmware binaries and squashing some long-lived bugs for example. Any more than that starts to feel like an unfair deal, especially when there’s the free version available. It’s not nothing, but it would tally up, I think.
I’ve been thinking about alternatives, and the only thought worth uttering aloud is doing something like what Signal does currently: It’s free to download and use, and they accept donations. (On top of the current paid device license, that is.) That would enable the users do whatever they please and donate as much or as little as they want. That wouldn’t drive any users away, and would provide a method for users to support Jolla.
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Why won’t Jolla finally do something to support paid applications in their store, and start earning some 30-40% commission out of it?
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Judging by how things are at the moment -what is offered in the licensed version- for me there is no reason to buy one. I mean i don’t need android support, my language isn’t supported on word prediction, i don’t need ms exchange etc.
And then are the devices which i hate each and every one of them.
If i see value in one of Jollas future offerings i’d be ok if there was an upfront payment option for all updates. I kind of don’t like the subscription model.
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Thing is: you as company can calculate better with subsciptions rather then one time payments
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Are you sure? Isn’t it more reliable for a company to count on what you get paid at once in advance (and therefore you receive the whole amount upon purchase) than on subscriptions that one can cancel (stop / not renew / whatever) at any time, i.e. you may end up with only a small fraction of the amount you’d get from that user if he/she paid the whole of it at once?
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I’m not attracted by subscriptions.
All plans together do highly increase the state of dependence of people, in my opinion.
I personally don’t want to loose my phone usage, software, PC use, car mandatory updates, etc if ever my income suddenly lowers.
Covid experience should help us remember that for many, the situation can change pretty fast, depending of the context.
So, repeated subscriptions tend to put people in a fragile situation and are less egalitarian.
However, a license model is very interesting for new users wanting to try the OS.
In the other hand -if one can afford it- putting 50€ for a progressive and alternative system is a good and positive contribution, even if the person is not using the system, at the end.
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I get that but you know what is that spoils the whole subscription model for me. That a lot of companies have “abused” or chosen the “forgotten automatically renewed subscription” model as a method to make money.
I am not saying that Jolla will do that but every time i read subscription -sadly-`this is what pops into my head.
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I thought this was an interesting idea for paid apps,
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A difficult question …
What can we expect when we pay the subscription? I gladly want to pay via a subscription, since I want to support Sailfish, since it’s a good alternative for Android (especially with the Android app support).
At least security updates, although I would also expect it without subscription, since it’s the least you would expect for a proper OS.
And practically, what if I’m stopping my subscription and use the phone a year later and pay subscription again? Will I get the latest and greatest OS?
I think it could create a base of arguing about “unfair situations” and users thinking of ways to pay the least and get the most.
I would also rather opt to accept paid applications. It’s fair to pay for software, it’s not fair to pay with privacy. The hard part with paid apps is to get traction: as long as big names as Facebook/Meta just don’t create Sailfish apps because they want to squeeze the enduser out with privacy, it’s hard to attract new Sailfish users.
You can also opt for a system where the OS will always get security-fixes, and functionality-updates/upgrades are paid. But then … what about people having 4.5 and want to upgrade to 4.7, without having 4.6 installed? Do they need to pay for 4.6 first and then go to 4.7?
Nevertheless, I think accepting paid apps and ask commission for them is a nice start to increase cashflow. It could exist alongside the current system and isn’t a replacement. And that’s a risk with subscriptions: I assume it’s a replacement for the current single payments for an OS, so what if it’s not working as desired? Go back? Continue? Would your current loyal base of users be fed up and don’t support the ecosystem?
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My humble opinion is that subscriptions are never a good idea.
A diversified licensing model, where I can pay for the commercial add-ons I need, is the right way to go in my opinion.
Pretty much as is.
And of course, it wouldn’t hurt if there was a way for voluntary donations.
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As many others in this thread, I am against any kind of subscription model for Sailfish. (Unless it’s for corporate clients - that’s not what this thread is about.)
What is especially missing in this discussion is a contributors’ perspective. Jolla, you want me to pay for donating you my free time? You expect me to work for you for free, and pay you for that “privilege”?
No, just no.
1 . Sailfish is a great OS, but it lives and breathes because of developers/porters/contributors who build stuff for free in their free time. It is beyond disrespectful to ask those people for a monthly/whatever-ly payment in addition to their free work.
To supporters of the subscription idea: there’s a high chance you are using at least one of my apps or patches - are you paying for my subscription? The same goes for all other contributions by the community - don’t forget translations! Are you paying for those contributors’ subscriptions?
2 . Some people don’t have endless money. Those subscriptions of “just a few bucks” for everything add up to a lot of money. Instead of renting a niche phone OS, people will drop Sailfish and end up back with Android.
3 . Without seeing any numbers, I do not believe that a subscription model for private users would make any meaningful financial difference for Jolla. Even if it would rake in a few thousand euros per month - that doesn’t pay for half a developer.
In all, I believe a subscription model would only discourage potential new users, drive out existing contributors, and bring little to no financial benefit for Jolla.
Please don’t do this.
This idea has been around for a long time but now that it apparently got Jolla’s attention, it is time to speak out against it - loudly.
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That’s why I never ever accept any kind of automatically renewed subscriptions. There’s no need to be afraid that you might forget to renew - those companies don’t lose any opportunity to remind about it. Not to even mention that it is often actually much cheaper to buy a new licence than to renew existing one, of which e.g. Symantec is a perfect example. Each year I buy a brand new Norton Security licence (from local authorized Symantec partner/distributor) twice cheaper than what it would cost me to renew online.
I fully agree with the entirety of your post.
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Based on the conversation Jolla implied that free version of the OS would still remain. Like it does now.
Even now we are just hypothetically talking about subscription that would have some value for the user. But you are strictly against it regardless of what that value is?
The reason why Jolla is back to this idea is that they need money to support OS development and market is more used to paying subscriptions for things than they were used to. Now that automotive is its own company, Jolla needs revenue to stand on its own.
They are probably turning every stone to make this successful. However there are very few ways to do so. Now we are just talking what alternatives since current situation isn’t enough. For example, if there were a subscription model, what kind of value it should provide for people to pay for it.
Of course, one alternative is that Jolla dies. Then Sailfish is no more and closed source components are left in some sort of holding company.
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To be very clear:
I don’t support a subscription model at all, as said.
But I absolutely support paying for software.
I.e. Paying for work, in general.
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Hm, my three (euro)cents here.
One good idea is to sell pre-flashed phones; it would significantly lower entry threshold for less technical users, to whom Sailfish estetics and convenience would appeal, but „reflash your phone” not necessarily so.
With such users, there comes a possibility of steady income influx. How? Some – many – of them would be in need of basic services, today considered a must-haves for smartphone: mail, contact, calendar synchronization, IM, cloud storage. Of course, developing and supporting such services in-house would be costly, time and effort-consuming, but there’s no need to – there is enough companies that provide them. I see possibility of partnership with one-two selected ones, where Jolla would be „wholesaler” and as such take its income from price difference. I suppose there are many companies, that would eagerly accept new, uniformly-configured users group for a small price of lower profit margin per head.
Of course:
- it can’t be obligatory, such move would only repel many users, but suggested during onboarding, with free introductory period
- it would have to be EU companies, not because of some local chauvinism, but there’s hardly better regulation than GDPR when it comes to user rights and privacy (even as I hate its paper side). Just not aruba or ovh, please
- (moral and technical) it should be based on standard protocols, not some private invention: smtp/imap/*dav/xmpp; using established standards will make it safe(r), should a need to change such partner arise, and much easier to develop client-side.
As for IM part, there’s strong movement in EU to force interoperability on big players, so, we can expect that they would have to accept interprotocol gateways, instead of cutting them off at will. The IM part can be introduced later, if situation develops in a good way.
While many people despise subscription for “product”, there’s no such barrier when it comes to “service”.
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I don’t think that setting up a hardware department with support and distribution would pay off any time soon.
Complex croud funded feature planning takes a lot of work and won’t pay off also.
The people I am paying for on a regular basis pay back by sending a nice email each year and some stickers or so from time to time.
A badge in the forum for people donating time or money could also be nice.
Everything else just causes work, trouble with people complaining about this, that and especially something else and minimal revenue.
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I agree with Briest and I would state that a pre-flashed phone is absolutely necessary for Jolla in order to grow. Publicity and a good campaign wil be needed. I remember the first years, when we saw video’s with Dillon discussing the OS with others in public.
Let’s conclude that paying for a license is not sufficient.
Some said here rightfully that developers need payment. Paid apps were suggested.
The problem with such payments: there is no proper payment system besides credit cards. Jolla tried this before and it failed. PayPal is a no go. Ideal works in some European countries.
So paid apps is a reasonable way of income for devs and for Jolla, but the implementation is not easily done.
Many answers here were from an individual point of view: ‘I won’t pay subscription’. It is true that subscriptions can weigh heavy after some time. Many people are lured into debt this way.
The other method of generating money is paying for a pre-flashed device like Volla and e/OS. Crowdfunding is a good option for the first new device.
Basic features such as 5G , a stable GPS, VoLTE, video calling etc. will be necessary, more than AI. AI is the last thing you can think of in a system where customers want to be able to organise their own system to their liking. ( I am thinking of the AI in VollaOS, where apps are continuously replaced by AI. That’s not only unnecessary, it is a nuisance).
A paid for cloud is also a possibility. Not everyone likes a cloud but many do because they are not able to install their own server.
Jollaboys have to decide which direction it wants to go. With Sony every two years, buggy adaptations, or with a more sustainable option.
Anyhow, if Sony goes on with that narrow ratio and the overabundance of light behind the screen, I quit. The black option of Volla (even in mail) is so much better for the eyes.
Finally, Jolla could try to coöperate with others. That is better than fading away.
I hope Jollaboys will ask advice from experts about a proper business model. The OS is worth it.
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