I was just commenting @fingus post about google. What’s not to understand?
This is absolutely correct - making this not-quite-correct:
I.e. it is “only” morally - not legally.
However; this time it is an actual purchase - which is very different.
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I have to question this. I actually got a full refund, even though I chose to waive half of the second refund, in connection with a license purchase for one of my X.
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I got half a refund on my tablet, without the option to take or waive it. Still better than my Fxtec purchase, though.
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Please let me elaborate… Jolla first offered me the half of my tablet voucher… and I accepted. Money on my bank account!
Next step… they offered me the rest of my money, but they also offered me a SailfishX license for half of the money and maybe I wanted the other half of my money back on my account, or maybe I could think about donating the rest of my money, just to help keep jolla alive… I decided to support Jolla!
And therefore I offered my poor pension, to give you and everyone else the opportunity to actually experience true linux environment
on a free of charge OS. Well… You’ll have to pay if you want the AAS… and some other things.
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What I’m saying is, that I don’t think Jolla owes me, or you, anything today. But I still want that damn X10V image complete, so I can purchase another X license. 
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Legally Jolla don’t owe anybody anything for the failed tablet saga sadly. This is because the Jolla company that existed then, and which may or may not have been responsible for any debts, no longer exists.
You can’t make a claim against a non-existent company, and if you didn’t register a claim during the previous company’s liquidation process, its too late now.
Today it is a different Jolla company (Jollyboys Oy, now renamed and/or trading as Jolla) which was created out of the 2023 restructure. And this company has no responsibility for the old company’s debts.
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There are some exceptions (e.g. If the directors of the old company, which may be the same as the directors of the new company, were deemed to have some personal liability), but generally speaking debts are written off in a company liquidation restructure where the liquidated company had insufficient assets to cover their debts, and then a new company is later incorporated.
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No one cares about that. Legal and ethic are different things.
Do you think that anyone who is still waiting for Pro1 will go buy clicks for example because it’s a different company?
Do you believe that if “jolly boys” scammed people with something (just as an example), everyone would run to buy something from “Jully girls” because it would be a different company?
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I accept that you do not care about that, I never said that you personally did, did I?
I was simply confirming the legal position in reponse to two previous posts.
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Did anyone say that Jolla legally owes them anything then?
Regardless though, I would find it very shitty if Jolla doesn’t deliver the phone to me and when i say they owe me someone would play forum lawyer to tell me they don’t have a legal obligation to give me back my money.
I think people here would generally agree with that, at least I haven’t seen anyone suggest otherwise.
The tablet disaster discussed above is another matter, and I trust @Steve_Everett’s summary of the legal situation to be correct. This doesn’t change the outcome for tablet backers - they have every right to be disappointed and upset, of course.
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I’m not ‘playing a forum lawyer’, I just happen to be a real qualified lawyer who specializes in contract, tort, and commercial law. But thanks for the insult.
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I’ve figured as much.
No one else would jump in this situation to explain to someone that they’re wrong if they think Jolla owes them after they supported the tablet and got nothing.
Cheers!
That is not what I said, and I am sure you know that.
What I said was that Jollyboys Oy almost certainly (exceptions as described above not applying) has no legal obligation to make good on any debts incurred by the previous Jolla company which is now defunct as a result of the 2023 restructure. In other words you cannot force Jollyboys Oy to pay someone back for, say, a non delivered tablet sold, promised, or whatever by a previous, now dead, company.
That is all.
The fact that the current company has many of the same employees, directors maybe, product, etc does not mean that there is not an ethical or moral obligation (as you yourself and @jojomen point out above) for the current company to try and do something - although being so long ago now I would suggest this is now highly unlikely.
As I said on this forum many times, and obviously in my opinion, Jolla has a sadly repetitious habit of ‘moving on’ from previous products before they are fully complete.
Oh, and if you ever get sued for defamation let me know and I’ll send you my day rates
If someone takes money from me because they’re supposed to deliver something in return—and if I don’t end up getting that thing, then I couldn’t care less whether there are laws or circumstances that make it legal or not: In my view, that’s not right.
In the case of the Jolla tablet, that was many years ago. If I hadn’t forgiven Jolla by now, I certainly wouldn’t have ordered the new Jolla Phone. I do recognize the enormous challenge Jolla has always had to face, and it certainly hasn’t gotten any easier these days (given the trend of rising costs, especially in the IT hardware sector).
I just want to say: You should always factor in delays, cost increases, or even total loss (which is why, for example, I haven’t planned a trip to Helsinki!).
It’d be great if everything works out and I end up with a Jolla here someday. But it doesn’t matter if nothing comes of it. Anyone dealing with Jolla should think this way—for the sake of their sanity!