well, I disagree with you. Each app store has an advantage. Like, all secure, safe apps are on Jolla Store.
Everything else (so with risk) are on OpenRepos/Storeman (a frontend for OpenRepos). And everything open-source should be on Chum (same principle than F-Droid) when it’s possible. But we’re getting off-topic.
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Any new user will probably have a very good reason to turn their back on the existing duopoly. In that respect, Jolla did well when it comes to marketing the J2 (privacy, alternative to Android / iOS, EU made, linux, community device,…). What they missed a bit IMHO is showcasing the one USP which sets them apart from Android / iOS and all the other mobile linux UIs: the SailfishOS UI. That being said, you need to keep in mind where people are coming from, because this shapes their expectations.
With the J2, the first major stumbling stone of finding a device that can actually run SFOS and then flashing it will have been dealt with. So far, so good.
Second thing: app stores.@dubstar_04 @pherjung: I went through the tutorial app again, which guides you through the UIs main functions and three apps (People, Clocks, Gallery) Why not at that stage create a section, where they tell you how to use the Jolla store and give users the chance to enable the other stores after shortly explaining the differences and between them and the risks involved (like pherjung did). That shouldn’t be too difficult to implement and everybody (new and experienced users alike) should be happy with that…
Then I would expand the tutorial to optional aspects to help new users set up the phone hassle-free or at least point people to the official documentation / the forum. Some essential / unique or useful features are not easy to find. I can only talk about my experience, but I would have loved to have been shown how to:
- Use emojis. Or the fact, that in the forum app you can scroll down all the way down by pressing the arrows. This might make me look stupid, but still…
- Using Utilities
- Taking full advantage of Documents, Gallery and the file indexing system behind these apps.
- Find native apps for specific tasks.
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Getting a working Flatpak again would solve a lot of app issues.
Also agreed on the app stores, although the situation we have now developed like this for a reason. I hope that the new users we get through the J2 will be mainly nerds / Linux enthusiasts that will be able to deal with this.
‘Normal’ users will be confused though. So some kind of meta-appstore as someone suggested might not be a totally bad idea (except now we have yet another app store).
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KDE and GNOME both allow applications from multiple sources and Furilabs has an extension to show Fdroid apps in GNOME software. I’m a Linux developer and enthusiast, I understand the segregation but I like convenience and I would prefer all applications listed in a single place with a clear indication of the origin.
I understand this isn’t everyone’s preference.
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Ya, the browser is outdated, no argument there. But there is a workable hosts-based blocking app in chum/testing, see this thread for more info. Because it’s still in testing at Chum, it’s not very visible, but I’d say it’s working well enough for daily driving now. Hopefully the author will get the time to get it into not-testing in the near future so it’ll be more discoverable.
BTW, reading your post, I realized that I’ve never used an emoji, and am not actually sure how I would if I wanted to . . .
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This made me LOL…
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Thanks, I’m aware of that solution and I’m going to test it once it is out of chum testing. I have a pihole at home + VPN’s adblock. And for the stock browser, there is this very simple solution (edit DoH and point DNS to adguard) which works perfectly well:
https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/ad-blocking-in-sailfishos-in-2023-what-are-the-options/15799/63?u=dopi04
I’m a teacher and a conductor. These audiences expect graphic novels showing endless amounts of empathy in my communication with them 
. You have to activate them similar to a different keyboard language in Settings - Text input - Keyboards. Using the space key you can then choose your language (including the “language” emoji - “Talking like an Egyptian”). That’s a rather unique an unexpected way of implementing an essential function, let’s put it this way.
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You’re right. Having used other linux mobile platforms and desktops, the lack of flatpak support seems really weird. But I can also understand the argument that non native apps would water down SFOS design principles and undermine its USP: the organic and homogeneous UI which sets SFOS apart from any other mobile platform.
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But the same is true for Android apps that plague us with the horrible Android look they bring with them.
What I think would make sense:
- Combine Chum-GUI and Storeman into a single app. This seems like a no-brainer, since both stores do basically the same thing on the front end.
- Create an installer for it in the Jolla Store. The actual installation could be done via a manual download, along with instructions on how to allow installing apps from external stores and local RPMs, if the Jolla Store does not allow anything else (it does allow external Android stores, though).
This would be far better than manually hunting for the right version of Chum-GUI or Storeman, assuming the user even knows they exist in the first place.
Bonus: Sort the Jolla Store (and Chum) by “Recently updated,” like Storeman does. This would incentivize developers to provide updates to their apps and help more effectively bury abandoned apps.
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You’re absolutely right. It’s a catch 22 situation. I’d love to see flatpak support. In many ways, it’s better to use open source linux apps than Android apps when you portray yourself as a privacy oriented project with community involvement.
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That’s the reason why we all are here.
the lack of flatpak support seems really weird.
It seems to me you are new in this forum. This because you tend to compare desktop rolling releases linux with mobile SFOS. And maybe you tend also to compare the “normal” SFOS user with the regular forum posters here. True or false?
Out of the box the following should be available and working natively:
-
phone
-
messaging (sms text and preferred signal native app)
-
web Browser
-
Mail
-
Calendar
-
Contacts
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Maps
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clock, timers
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Camera
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Media gallery
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Media playback
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File manager
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Calculator
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SFos App Store(s)
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Cloud backup and data synch provider
-
android support at latest android version
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Android App Store
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Micro G
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VPN service
Wish list:
- open office or Libre office applications
- Spotify or other streaming service
- YouTube
- AI app
I would prefer this over TOH of choices have to be made
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With all that working (most but not not all of it working well depending on definition), what does your post actually mean to add?
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Correct.
Partly true. Not only desktop linux but also pmos using phosh, gnome-mobile or plasma-mobile (desktop adaptations).
No idea. You tell me, what a normal SFOS user and a regular forum poster is based on your experience…
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As far as I understand (and I fully agree with @Wintertijd) the emphasis is in ”out of the box”, without urging a new user to find and install the reight repos, find these apps etc.
A list of (preferably native) apps for for certain puposes (i.e.Pure Maps for Navigation etc.), where they can be found, how they can be installed and set-up would be great. So while detailed instructions are kind of a minimum need by a new user, it won’t remove all the obstacles because the user still has to deal with different repositories that themselves need to be found and installed.
Regarding further repositories like OpenRepos and Chum, I wonder whether there is any user herearound that does not need at least one those but rather purely relies on the Jolla Store.
IMHO it is easier to have those repositores pre-installed because this paves the way for new users while more experienced users may easily remove those repositories if they do not need them. Same goes for basic apps like file manager etc.
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If all of this is working out of the box, without having to do code, complicated setup routines etc .. nothing. And with working I mean stable and effortless
If you want more people in, you need a basic out of the box usable experience. There is a lot of market for secure devices that are independent from big tech. That does not mean those users are tech savvy people who like to tinker..
So focus should be on this and after that additional gadgets like TOH are fantastic, I am a big fan but please prioritise.
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Valid points.
But OTH TOH will bringer tinkerers and native app developers. Which are very much needed. To build something great it really helps if community is big, diverse and constructive. And TOH can also add possibility of expansions missing in the phone itself.
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For me both part of your post are “whishlists”. I know some people they needs the SFOS, some of the Jolla apps and some basic Store apps. I know some more people with more special apps installed - but no android (because they and me where here for “no android”).
So if you allow I called both of your wishlist “personal”. Ok?
I haven’t tried the new setup wizard; but i heard it does suggest Android app stores. Not sure about MiicroG, but it is really quite easy to install now.
I see having to install maps and filebrowser from store as perfectly acceptable.
Then what do you mean remains?
I use nothing from there in anything like a regular basis.
Preinstalling those for noobs will do more harm than good.
It is much better to have a FAQ where users have to put i a little bit of effort on their own, so they don’t get rewarded for complete helplessness.
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