Don’t.
Twenty characters and happy new year
3 Likes
Based on the constant and completely off-topic mentions of GRAPHENE OS SOOPER DOOPER SECYOOR, persistently misinterpreting all information in the worst way possible, deliberately misspelling half of the Sailfish-specific jargon to make themselves look like a poor clueless and helpless user, and expecting a small company with very limited resources to have a product and documentation on par with that of industry giants (both proprietary and in free software) with infinite resources, I have a strong suspicion this person never had any interest in and certainly no intention of using Sailfish, and their sole purpose is to waste everyone’s time.
7 Likes
And Apple say “Apple iPad” and “iPad” interchangeably.
What is it with people not understanding how percentages relate to things?
100% faster is the same as 200% as fast. 100% as fast would be the same speed.
Title Case is really foreign to non-native English speakers - expect mistakes.
8 Likes
But they don’t say ‘tablet.’ iPad is a trademark. Safari is their browser. It is pre-installed. You don’t need to own one to find out. The Sailfish browser entry is third from the bottom on the docs page listed under ‘Web Browser.’ The Jolla Store is invisible to consumers.
How many mistakes and where? The website splash page is CRITICAL. Software is coded in English and proper nouns are an essential component. The only exception is Apple’s iPad, iPod, iProduct. Yes, this is a worst case interpretation. I’m sure the code is great. But this isn’t how CUSTOMERS will see it. I assume J2 costs around the same as an entry level iPhone.
With an invisible repo it forces me to ask questions. Yes I am now aware what the browser is called and where to find it on GitHub. But the fact I had to guess and do manual searches or have it supplied to me in a forum isn’t ideal. The browser entry on the webpage should link to a corresponding Jolla Store page which should link to source code.
The alternate native software stores should be mentioned somewhere. The lack of visibility is presumably what caused this thread to begin with. Telling laypeople to enable developer mode and grant sudo privelages to third party stores or whatever that entails is less than ideal.
I am not trying to waste anyone’s time. Obfuscating software is a waste of everyone’s time. All I’m trying to do is see whether someone else feels the same and establish consensus.
I never said it was secure so you can’t be talking about me then. Linux is better than Android. Android is a worse version of Linux. I would prefer not to use GrapheneOS if there was an alternative with feature parity. I hate Google.
This is also a strawman. I am aware of some community led initiatives which might get there eventually. All I request is a basic wiki without corporate jargon. I have already paid the deposit; now I want to learn more. There are projects with zero funding and no paid devs who have better documentation. Obviously they aren’t documenting an entire OS but Wikipedia exists! It doesn’t need to be a million dollar website.
Your point is?
My point is that Browser, Sailfish Browser, and a package name of sailfish-browser are all consistent names.
I really don’t care about this part of the discussion, nor see it as an issue.
But you really wouldn’t see their browsers in their stores either.
If you are going to Karen-customer a tiny mostly open source project you are setting yourself up for a lot of disappointments.
Manual searching is the norm for finding information.
The browser repo is literally pinned on their GitHub account frontpage.
No need to use terminal or grant any “sudo prvileges” involved in using openrepos or chum. Stop making shit up.
I’m sorry that calling the browser “Browser” feels obscure to you.
7 Likes
Agreed. Proper nouns, in English, are essential. This should be communicated consistently across marketing materials. The Firefox fork aspect should also be declared in lay terms. Rounding up this would cost one day of labour for a single employee. The translations could be crowd sourced like GNOME does.
Not necessarily but I didn’t ask for that. All I need is a brief synopsis “Firefox fork optimised for Sailfish.” Link to dedicated marketing webpage. Link to wiki/GitHub. Brand recognition is essential for consumer trust. Browsing the app store before purchasing is a separate issue.
Imagine calling me a Karen for noticing basic errors on a homepage and factoring that into my decision about where to spend money. The customer is always right. Not always I know. But customers paying 700€ shouldn’t need to find the pinned repo on a GitHub page. GitHub isn’t for customers. Put it right under my nose where I can see it! J2 isn’t priced as a dev kit.
How many hurdles do I need to jump before choosing a phone? My phone should make life easier, not harder. You might enjoy adversity but I expect more for my money. Its called good marketing.
That may be true. I wouldn’t know, which is my point! Obvious to you but not the uninitiated consumer.
I don’t object to the naming convention per se. But imagine if I offered to sell you a car. Which car? The only one I have. What is it? A car. What do you think it is? A vehicle with four wheels. Who manufactured the engine? Geko. Is it a Geko car? No. Who made it then? Check the owners manual. What should I look up to find the owners manual? “Car owners manual.” Which manufacturer? Mozilla. So its a Mozilla car with a Geko engine which supports copy and paste? Named Sailfish Car, naturally. Got it! Finally. Not confusing at all. Can I install a different native browser? Wait until the phone arrives to find out or spin up a virtual machine you entitled Karen.
How hard would creating a webpage like this be? The graphics are nice but not necessary.
You would benefit from learning to recognise a hypothetical scenario. Most Linux distros require sudo privileges to permanently install system level software. This is a reasonable assumption.
I don’t feel like this is productive anymore so I’ll leave it there for now. Please don’t strawman me in replies. Feel free to message for clarification or further context. Apologies for critiquing your sacred cow. You do you.
P.S. If there are typos it may be because my Google Pixel Tablet touchscreen is malfunctioning or defective. It taps the screen in random areas, sometimes in the middle of other words. There is a 30% deadzone covering either the bottom two rows on the virtual keyboard or top of my screen depending how I hold it. My storage is full which may also be contributing since it briefly went away after an update. Such a Pixel fanboy I know. If only Google was a smaller company then it wouldn’t matter.
Karen, you might be a customer to someone but not to the forum. You seem to be always right. But that is another story and happened quit some time before. Fact is: You have never used a SFOS device and you are explaining the world to us.
Go contact Jolla Support to defend your right as a customer but please do not talk to us before you know what you are talking about. You are welcome to become part of the community I suppose but considering the solution to the ultimate question and everything without any deep thought or even the appropriate computer is of no use.
3 Likes
Why 700€ though? J2 costs about 500-580€ and we just paid less than 100 for now, with no commitment to buy + fully refundable.
Also does that mean that people who spent thousands on Jolla/sony/community port devices, hundreds on licenses and subscriptions should have the upper hand in any conversation with you who paid 99€ that you can refund anytime?
And all that in a public forum? Because this is not the place to directly talk to Jolla, this is a space for the community.
2 Likes
If you look at the pre-prder page Jolla claim the ‘normal price’ will be 599€ to 699€.
I don’t know what to make of your comment about amounts paid over time.
Why every now and then, do new users come to this forum with all guns blazing, posting dozens of messages in a week or two, talking about their new groundbreaking ideas and ways to save Jolla and make SFOS the world’s leading mobile operating system? (and absolutely nobody has come up with these ideas/suggestions before)
Eventually these users get fed up, when it turns out that their ideas aren’t as good, as easy to implement or as well recieved for any other reason as they thought, they get bitter and they either:
-
have a period of a few weeks or months, when they reply to various discussions with an extra negative attitude
-
start spamming everything inappropriate for the forum, and when the forum software automatically hides their spam messages based on flagging, they start accusing Jolla of censorship in the next wave of spam
-
have a total nervous breakdown, and after that their discussions are no longer related to SFOS, but to something totally different, and the messages are so next level, that only a few users care enough to interact with them
after which, the users either quit when they run out of steam, or get banned if they continue long enough.
8 Likes
But the price right now is 580€ and we paid 90-99€ with no commitment to buy the device.
What I mean is, if you had the device in your hands, fully paid, and it was not as advertised I think you would have every right to contact Jolla and probably start a conversation here as well.
But the device is not ready yet and no one asked us to pay the rest so In my mind at least we can’t argue about much yet.
1 Like
I joined after Jolla emailed me to vote on this. On their forum which they run. After I pre-ordered their product.
As I said earlier – this isn’t productive. My enthusiasm for Linux on a phone has waned. Jolla already has my money. I’m still waiting to see how things go before requesting a refund. I can see why SailfishOS doesn’t get much recognition in the wider FOSS community. I have no skin in the game (other than a deposit) so there is nothing to be bitter about.
I showed the J2 webpage to a relative including some of the interactions I’ve had on this forum. She advised me to move on and buy the phone at a later date once the product has matured. This is wise but I have at least half a year to make my decision. TOH may tip the balance of they develop something I can’t refuse.
Why not ask for a refund and move on?
I wonder if they will actually build any TOHs, because it’s unlikely they will receive 10k orders by the end of the month.
2 Likes
Unless stated elsewhere there is no end date listed on the TOH thread. Hopefully Jolla integrate the cheapest or simplest option and leave it up to third party manufacturers and tinkerers. I assume they will since the back is removable anyway. There is no point cancelling my pre-order at this stage.
1 Like
They don’t specify a final date for TOH in those links. Jolla require 2000 pre-orders by Jan 31st to build the phone. If they get 10,000 pre-orders they will incorporate TOH. Jolla could still be taking pre-orders in February. It doesn’t confirm either way. I think J2 will include basic connectivity features after 6000 units and offer TOH products after 10,000 real sales. This is speculation on my part.
There is.
You can get a 10 III now (or more of them) with the preorder money and a license for it to use sfos now without waiting almost a year.
It looks like the 99€ deposit for the phone has you more invested and troubled than it should, so you can just as well try sfos as is with that money.
Maybe it will convince you to get the device when it matures as your wise friend suggested, or you sell the Xperia with the license and move on with your life.
5 Likes
This would make sense for a person interested in the OS. But parking 99 € for the time it takes to get bored might be the solution that just fits.
@Orangutan Listen to your relative. Come back when everything is ready for your expectations.
3 Likes