Jolla Phone Pre-order campaign has started

To add to the discussion (without disagreeing on your main points); I think Jolla claiming a “user-configurable privacy switch” is already a carefully crafted formulation, as they aren’t claiming it to be a “security switch” (the one discussed here: Jolla Phone Pre-order campaign has started - #52 by hanswf ), or a hardware kill switch.

Whether a privacy switch is sufficient for a user amounts to the trust they invest in the OS, and what perils the user wants to protect themselves from.

For example, I entirely distrust Microsoft to protect my privacy. Therefore I use a physical privacy shutter on the webcam of my work laptop. However I reasonably trust my linux distro vendor to not spy on me so I don’t use such hardware protection on my GNU/linux computers.

For now, I only have reasons to trust that Jolla will act in good faith and do their best in implementing a privacy switch. One reason to trust Jolla is if they don’t have much of a plan B and have everything to lose if they betray our trust and get caught. And they know it.

My primary target with SFOS is therefore not to protect myself from Jolla lying to me, but from data leaks caused by commercial software that I cannot avoid using (e.g. Facebook app), but that I know will spy on me at the first opportunity and at every opportunity after that.

I believe commercial spyware won’t pull out hacker tricks able to evade Jolla’s privacy switch, for several reasons, but among those is that we are too small for them to spend any effort on us, and most likely they don’t even know Jolla or SFOS exist.

For these reasons, I don’t think I will be victim of targeted hacks that require as a protection to physically disconnect the hardware. Therefore, physically disconnecting the microphone is an excessive means for my needs. But additionally, a kill switch would also be pointless, because:

  1. if I though I could be victim of a high level spy operation, the correct solution would be to not install Facebook or not use a mobile phone at all;
  2. I obviously cannot physically disconnect the microphone when talking on the phone, which is also when most of the useful things any spies want to hear will be said. Generally, disconnecting the microphone when the phone is idle makes also little sense. Of course this will depend on the user’s individual scenario, but we have already seen the rise and fall of the TVs that used always-on webcams to observe the reactions of the users — it seems such level of spying it was not profitable after all.

A software switch as implemented by Jolla is actually a much better solution than a kill switch for the purpose of protection against commercial spyware — the point of using SFOS. One major peril SFOS users might want to protect themselves from is Android applications or maybe background browser tabs spying on them when talking on the phone or using the camera. This risk is averted by a software privacy switch, while a hardware kill switch won’t help.

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I don’t know what it will be exactly (no more informed than anybody of us), but there is an additional option: A hybrid switch.

As an example: You can do a hardware switch for the microphone, camera and modem in a hardware way. (meaning disconnecting it from the battery for instance) and still you could read out what state that switch is and add software based shut offs too.

That makes it a configurable privacy switch too.
I am not sure what a hardware switch would actually look like…would a hardware switch make the phone more fragile for instance / add an additional thing that can fail with a high likeliness?

Best regards
*Fuchur*

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Well said, and I’d suggest @Jolla to also update the FAQ section with the opening of Batch #3 as that seems to have been overlooked.

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i’ve never got working navigation. in any of my SFOS devices.

@Jolla Will there be a new sound scheme as well? The current ones get a bit old after 14 years. :slight_smile:

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Strange. I had X, XA2 and C2 with working GPS. Not perfect but usable.

What stopped you?

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Why don’t you make your own? It’s not that hard.

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dunno. never got a gps fix, just sat there chewing through battery.

I’m sure that we can help you in separate thread.

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A switch that cuts the mic has to be readable by software, or user experience will suffer. This is less important for cameras, since you have better feedback in apps. Camera showing a black screen probably makes you check the switch, but making a call without realizing that you don’t have the mic enabled…

Depending on how the switch works, reading plain zero values is probably quite uncommon on a mic so probably detectable in software without knowing the position of the actual switch.

Still better than not having such a switch at all, though.

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Totally fine with that, not asking for support here.

Merely objecting to attempts to slam the value of TheRegister’s commentary on the false narrative that they exhibit ‘noob’ problems. Because that is a nonsense.

Definitely sounds doable, maybe at the expense of a more complex (interdependent) driver layer and battery drain.

Maybe? Like when you face threats where physically cutting the mic is necessary and all your contacts know that you will sometimes forget to re-enable it for calls. Also, anyone in this group would be very aware of the details and is probably prepared to deal with the inconvenience

Personally, I would more cut the mic for peace of mind than for my high threat level, and I would be annoyed by broken calls. I’d argue that the J2 is aimed more at this use case, and that those who buy it likely will be less tolerant to inconvenience.

That’s why a software switch would be acceptable to me, and a hardware switch without clear state indication in the Phone UI would be worse.

I had J1, C1, XA2, X10, X10II an now have C2 and each of them had GPS working (with PureMaps and OSM Scout, without long fiddling around). Strange!?! The only thing I had to do is starting GPS Info, PureMaps does not seem to trigger GPS. But with GPS Info it did not take long to get a fix.

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Frankly, I never had GPS problems with any of my SFOS devices, neither with any of the officially supported Sony devices (I have/had them all) nor withe the XZ2 or XZ3 with the excellent port from Rinigus. In rare cases, the fix took a little bit longer but never more than a minute. I only start GNSS when needed so it is off most of the time.

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I remember that Jolla once had plans for a cloud service with F-secure called younited, a long time ago but it never came into fruition.

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I’m sure the ringtones have evolved (more than once, I believe) since SFOS 1. Probably the other sounds, too, but I don’t ever use anything but “SMS arrived” . . .

I sustain this opinion. +1 for Cyan back cover!

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Aloe blue, and possibily a lime one :stuck_out_tongue:

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And maybe also patriotic white-blue as well xD