Claiming warranty on Xperia 10, should I reflash Android, lock the bootloader?

General
#12

My sound was completely gone and also vibration did not work constantly. Sony repair center here in the Netherlands waves warranty away because of the unlocked bootloader and said it is unable to repair the phone.

Sames issues also with invalid touch response etc… I did flashed the latest Android version on the phone before I send it back (but with the lock bootloader message) because it was also for me to check if the phone was really not working also under Android.

But did anyone manage to relock the bootloader?

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#13

Just write them an angry letter saying you’ll sue if they don’t repair your phone as refusing to do so is blatantly breaking EU law, which carries hefty fines. Inside the EU, as long as you’re still inside the mandatory two year warranty period, the manufacturer can only refuse to repair a device because it has unofficial software installed if it can prove that the damages were caused by installing said unofficial software.
If they still won’t budge, contact the Consumentenbond or actually sue them yourself - you will win the case.

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#14

Do you have perhaps a link or the part to the EU law you are referencing to?

#15

The specific directive is 1999/44/EC, or 1999/44/EG if you want the Dutch version, but as legalese is hard to read, here’s an explanation written for us mere humans:

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#16

The strong email was just send. Lets wait…

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#17

Well…

The repair center in the Netherlands denied repair of the phone, and kindly passed the phone number for Sony if you don’t agree with the denial of the repair. Even writing emails pointing out to the EU law does not help. I even asked what the cost would be if I would like to pay for the repair (mainboard replacement) and they even denied this because when it is not within the warranty Sony does not allow then to repair the phone. So they basically say you wanted this and even if our product has defects your screwed.

Contacted Jolla support and they point to the FAQ:

Sorry to hear about your situation. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do about this as it seems to be a HW issue. Our FAQ on the instructions page says:

How does this affect my warranty with Sony?
The effect of unlocking your phone does affect your warranty, so you should make sure that you read Sony’s warnings during the unlocking process thoroughly. We also recommend that you verify that all the hardware is working properly before unlocking their devices, as although getting repairs for existing faults under warranty may still be possible after unlocking, it will be much easier before.

A similar kind of message is on Sony’s page on Unlocking the bootloader:

https://developer.sony.com/develop/open-devices/get-started/unlock-bootloader/

Truly disappointed about the whole repair process and they even send you the phone back while I asked them to wait for Sony to reply. If they will some day. Costed 36 euros + transport and several weeks further.

I really like Sailfish but knowing now that Sony will deny repair when the bootloader is unlocked they will deny repair. So to me it is a big gamble to buy a new phone and repeat the process hoping the hardware will stay ok. Since there are so many hardware related posts here on the forum.

I also wrote back to support that some hardware defects might be within warranty makes me curios what defects that might be. No speaker sound and vibration sounds like “normal” hardware defects.

Hope this helps people when they are about to buy a Sony and runs into issues. Think twice with a Xperia 10 plus in my case.

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Any chance of non-Sony phones being officially supported in the future ?!
4th Xperia 10 unresponsive screen
#18

@johan.smits
If you don’t need android app support you can try community port.
If you need android app support sony is the only option.

#19

It is not that I need Android support, the problem I have is that the speaker and the vibration motor is broken. I want my phone to be repaired but with a unlocked bootloader you can’t get it repaired.

#20

should be doable.yourself. i have replaced speakers twice already. and i saw the vibrathingi the last time when trying to fix my backlight. check youtube to see if you think you can fix it

#21

@pawel.spoon where did you ordered the speaker part?

#22

somewhere on ebay.

but: i did replace it in jolla 1, xperia x and an ipad.

so it was dooable.

but i have now no seller for you. will check.

Update: it was in 2018, so cant find it anymore.
But i do regurarly order things from uk, so something like this should be fine:

#23

I’m really sorry to hear they’re being so stubborn about it. Please, do contact the customer’s rights organisation in the Netherlands about this. They can put their legal team on it (you may need to become a member for that) or even simply threaten with bad press. Big companies care much more about what a nation-wide organisation is telling people about them than about one annoying customer.

#24

Funny, I have the opposite experience in Switzerland:

I had a busted micro-USB socket on my Xperia X phone (so I couldn’t easily connect to flashtool and return it to factory state. In fact I couldn’t even charge it).

Warranty-repair subcontracting company explained that they don’t give a damn what’s installed on the phone:
they will always wipe the phone, flash the factory image and relock the boatloader as part of their standard repair procedure (to cover troubles which are of software origin I presume? Or just to be sure the technicians will find the standard self-diagnose tools in there?).
And it’s the responsibility of the end user to back their data up before sending and then restore them upon return.
(Luckily in my case, everything was perfectly backed up with rsync over Wifi before. One of the small joys of running a full blown GNU/Linux on the phone).

So it proves that it’s pefectly doable for a company to service hardware trouble on a rooted phone.

I would also suggest going to a consumer rights group (luckily we have those here in Europe).

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Any chance of non-Sony phones being officially supported in the future ?!
#25

It’s been a while, but didn’t you have to backup a partition to be able to relock the BL on the X?

(And this was doable due to a flaw in the earlier version of Android which is not possible on the later devices.)

So unless you provided them with the backup, I presume they have other software cable of relocking the BL?

#26

It’s interesting how differently repairs of unlocked devices seem to be handled in different European countries. Couple of years ago I sent my xperia x to repair in Finland because of broken back camera. They would have repaired it, but only after replacing the whole board because of the unlocked bootloader. the service company said that this was because of Sony warranty policy. I declined, because the cost was more than 200e. Had to to pay 35e fee though for sending the device to repairs. In the end I ordered a new back camera (<20e, including delivery) from aliexpress and replaced the part myself. Did not recognise any difference in quality compared to the original part.

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#27

didn’t you have to backup a partition to be able to relock the BL on the X?

I think you’re remembering the Trim Area (TA partition), this partition will self destruct as part of the official unlocking procedure.
This partition holds a couple of cryptographic keys which are used as part of the DRM scheme and (on older Xperia X firmware versions) also to unlock some of the advanced custom image processing that Sony has developed for the camera.

Restoring this partition is not necessary to relock the boot-loader (you can relock by just reflashing a complete brand new clean Sony official firmware including all the partition), but not restoring it means that you will miss the crypto key and will have reduced DRM capabilities (a different widevidecdn level on netflix ?)

(And this was doable due to a flaw in the earlier version of Android which is not possible on the later devices.)

Indeed if you want to back it up yourself, you need to gain root access on android before unlocking the boot loader (and thus before TA self-destructs). On Xperia X this was done by using the “Dirty CoW” exploit, I’ve done it just in case, but at no point did the repair subcontractor ask for it.

For my next Xperia XA Plus upgrade, I didn’t back this up, as at that time there wasn’t any useful exploit and given that the repairs never asked for it, I didn’t see the point. (by the time I finish using that one, it will be considered “old hardware” and nobody will bother buying it second hand anyway, so nobody will miss the DRM keys).

I presume they have other software cable of relocking the BL?

In theory, as an official repair subcontractor, they could have had access to official Sony tools and be able to reflash the TA partition with a new official key.
Or maybe they just relocked the thing as-is.
Frankly, I avoid DRM like plague so I haven’t gotten to occasion to check if my widevinecdn level has been degraded.

If the contractor doesn’t have the tools the last possibility to restore DRM without a backup is to swap the motherboard with a new one from Sony (who in turn have the flash tools to refurbish it), as @toanja has reported.
But in my case (replacing a separate daughter board that handles charging), it doesn’t make sense the DRM keys are necessary.

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#28

It’s interesting how differently repairs of unlocked devices seem to be handled in different European countries.

I think the main difference is that Switzerland has extremely strong and active consumer protection associations (on a similar level as Germany), so it’s not worth for company to piss off consumer.

Couple of years ago I sent my xperia x to repair in Finland because of broken back camera. They would have repaired it, but only after replacing the whole board because of the unlocked bootloader. the service company said that this was because of Sony warranty policy.

“Policies” of some private company cannot overrule European laws about warranty on consumer goods. That would be illegal.

Sony would have to prove that the unlocking of the bootloader caused the breaking of the camera. There is a very tiny sliver of truth here: on some older version of the Android firmware on Xperia X (I think up to Nougat ?) the Sony own special customized camera app needed the crypto key to unlock some special image processing custom code. So technically, on these old phones and firmware, unlocking the bootloader would immediately result in slightly degraded picture quality in the photos (on par of the other android phone with standard apps, instead of Sony’s custom app that should have Apple-level of photo touch-ups).

But that’s clearly not the case with you phone: the camera has been working successfully for quite some time on Sailfish until being completely fubar one day (not as in missing some processing bells and whistles but as in not working anymore), and as future proof, the replacement of the camera module and touching nothing else solved it perfectly.

In your case, I would try getting in touch with some local consumer protection association.

  • If your phone was under warranty, they are obligated to repair the phone for free unless it’s the result of clear destruction from your action (it’s not, see above).
  • If the phone is not under warraty, they still don’t have ground to force you to accept a full motherboard swap for some obscure “policy” reasons when that’s clearly not the problem (it’s probably a mixture of them wanting to be able to bill you a more expensive and thus more lucrative repair options, and of Sony probably wanting to keep their “intellectual property” protected by dissuading end-users to tinker with DRM and cryptokeys).

When not free under warranty, replacing the module your self is probably the cheaper option (though not easier given the glued together parts).

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#29

I accidentally dropped my Xperia 10 II and the screen broke.

Contractor (Sweden) says that a screen replacement would cost just over half the cost of a new phone but since I’ve unlocked the bootloader they would need to replace the motherboard and that in it self is more expensive than a new phone. They also claim that my insurance will not cover this since the fault (unlocking bootloader) was caused by me.

If had not unlocked the bootloader and the phone was actually beyond repair, my insurance would cover the cost of a new phone.

Any chance of non-Sony phones being officially supported in the future ?!
#30

I accidentally dropped my Xperia 10 II and the screen broke. {…} They also claim that my insurance will not cover this since the fault (unlocking bootloader) was caused by me.

Wait are they claiming that the broken screen was caused by the unlocked bootloader?
Or that an unlocked bootloader suddenly makes it impossible replace a screen by some magic?

I don’t know which is the least ridiculous claim from their part but both are equally wrong.
Anyway this is a completely wrong answer by the contractor.

At best you should try to get some local consumer-protection association involved.
At minimum you should get the insurance involved and discuss finding a different contractor which doesn’t require ridiculous motherboard swaps.

(I suppose the insurance’s logic is that in order to avoid botched repair, they have a list of “known good” contractors to which they send the devices (and they tend to prefer contractors officially licensed by the manufacturer). And in turn, in order to obtain some official “Seal of approval” by Sony, the contactor has signed some contract with Sony where they promise to swap unlocked motherboards. Anyway that’s bonkers).

In general, though, unless you break your screens on an extremely regular basis, I would advise against contracting an insurance saving the money and in putting it into an account. If it breaks outside of the regular 24-months warranty period, it’s cheaper to get the screen replaced in some smaller shop using the saved money, than paying the insurance.
(I might be biased: over the 25 years or so I’ve been using PDAs and then smartphones, I’ve broken 2-3 screen. Each time replace, twice on an OpenMoko so ultra-cheap to order a replacement on ebay and then replace myself)

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#31

DrYak has a point. More than one actually :wink:. If you can still have access to the phone you can reflash it. If you enabled dev mode you can even ssh into it and do do a backup. But OTOH that would acknowledge their wrongdoing.