You are old fashioned.
1 Like
Yeah, just use Android, it may suit you better, nobody coerces you to us SF and ranting wonât solve anything.
2 Likes
The problem is that you picked a device that require application which in turn require specific operating system to be able to run. Now youâre using different operating system and you complain that because youâre not fulfilling manufacturer requirements you canât use device. And instead of asking the device manufacturer to add support to third party operating system by at least providing some communication specification you ask a third party os owners to implement something they donât even have a spec sheet for.
4 Likes
Iâm certainly not against having BT in AlienDalvik. On the contrary. Of course itâs a way to get things working. But it doesnât fix the underlying problem of closed protocols, vendor lock-in, poor performing apps (ask my mom about her BT-connected smartwatch - hint, itâs not a Pebble), and privacy disrespecting companies.
But, should Jolla try to get it done? IMO, yes! The chance youâll see an open / reverse engineered protocol supported by a third party Android app is, of course, much greater than youâll find a SFOS app.
1 Like
Donât feed the trolls.
I think we all agree that full Bluetooth support in AD would be very welcome. I personally used a carsharing app which now relies on Bluetooth and is of course not available for SfOS. So no carsharing for me anymore.
I also got a GoPro camera some time ago which I couldnât use yet on my recent skiing trips since there is no SfOS app available. I usually buy my stuff after I checked for foss support, but nowadays there is not always a choice especially when it comes to mobile devices/hardware.
I understood it is hard/ impossible to share the Bluetooth hardware between SfOS and AD. But what about my suggestion to use an additional bt-dongle for AD exclusively? Android bt-settings could be accessed through the genuine android settings menu. Itâs only that no devices show up there currently due to missing hardware. The âonlyâ thing necessary would be to somehow directly access a Bluetooth dongle from the AD container. Would that be feasible?
4 Likes
I donât get that âsharingâ problem.
If itâs a problem, give me a toggle to switch BT and NFC exclusively to SFOS or AD.
Iâm totally ok with that until sharing is solved.
5 Likes
It is amusing to me that someone that DOESNâT use SFOS daily is bashing people who do use it daily and have suggested a very reasonable quality of life improvement.
The reality is SFOS is and always will have a minimal user base, and companies will always make things proprietary. That is just the world we live in.
Edit: People wanting to use camera remote shutter should see if their device has an ir trigger, many cameras do. Its not as convenient as BT, but it is a workaround and pretty easy to cobble something together with the correct signal.
It seems like Jolla realizes that which is why AD is a thing, and at least for me it is a welcome one. I use native apps as much as I can, but can also use android apps.
@lolek would be proud though. Rather than buy a proprietary smart watch, I bought an esp32 based one (partly due to the extra features) and ported it to work on SFOS. Took about a year for me to finally finish the programming due to scope creep, bug hunting and other stuff (had it semi working in a month).
This is all to say BT passthrough would be really nice, but volte is a must. Jolla had stated the first part of 2022 for volte, but here we are coming up on 5 months in and 3G and in some cases 2G being shutdown left and right.
I donât mind working around some stuff, but Jolla really needs to get on certain things.
2 Likes
why is that? Iâm using even more limited phone right now but I can be sure that when I set alarm clock it will ring because thereâs no problem. If I pick up a call Iâll hear the other side, if I turn on gps it will just work. Same for using keyboard - itâs just very comfortable not to mention other things. It just works and it suits my needs. SFOS is not yet there.
it is not. itâs up to us and how much pressure we will put on the manufacturers. But since people are directing their attention to the wrong side of the party we have what we have. And imho if Jolla would think like what you presented, then I think we wouldnât be able to even use the SFOS.
did you write at least one mail to app manufacturers about supporting open standards? For example Iâm writing mails if I see android app require google play services.
1 Like
Wow you write emails. Let me know when a single company responds with something other than a template auto reply.
itâs up to us and how much pressure we will put on the manufacturers.
âWeâ have no leverage. So âweâ would be screaming into a âdelete emailâ void. Reality is reality.
when I set alarm clock it will ring because thereâs no problem.
I have never had an issue with SFOS alarms, going back more than a year.
1 Like
Iâm sorry but I donât want to spam you. itâs either they donât reply at all or they reply that âuh oh yeah but noâ. And Iâm using Huawei as a argument to drop Google Play Services.
wrong. You alone have no leverage, but you and me is bigger then you alone, and if we find another one it will be even more. This is how you build group of people that can have leverage. Not to say that current world situation shows that minority can have bigger impact than majority. Just use the âdiscriminationâ keyword and magically things go a bit different.
great, can you normally change alram sound for each alarm or itâs still not possible without patchmanager or using other app?
Yeah it would be great to have a toggle to load/unload the Bluetooth driver to either the AD or the SFOS environment.
As far as I understood Android relys on a Bluetooth stack entirely different to BlueZ and thatâs why sharing a single Bluetooth hardware is not possible. But binding the same devices to either the one, or the other environment NOT simultaneously but solely, as requested by the user, might be an opportunity that sounds great for me. May this be feasible?
6 Likes
This sounds more âeasyâ than carrying around a second dongle.
I donât use BT daily, sometimes for headphones. For me it wonât be a problem to switch BT from SF to Android to get some devices working.
For me this sounds also like an quite âeasyâ to implement approach.
4 Likes
Maybe this can be brought up in the community meeting next week?
6 Likes
I also find it amusing that you preach âproprietary is bad and we shouldnât stand for it, work around it, or use itâ yet whatever phone and OS you are using has proprietary blobs in it, as well as closed source pretty much everything. (Before you try the âBut muh AOSP is open source,â the cell modem firmware is not.)
It kinda shoots your whole philosophical premise in the foot, when you are literally doing what you tell others they shouldnât do.
I canât claim my smartwatch adventure was all about open source, because it wasnât, but seems like I have actually done more for FOSS then your emails. You know something that is actually useful.
Regardless, I clearly wont change your mind. Just like you wonât change the minds of people here. Maybe it would be best to refrain from bashing people for wanting usability. If you truly wanted to make a difference you could contribute to SFOS either with apps or with code contributions to the opensource UI parts. It would be more effective than emails and would make your arguments actually have some weight as well as improving usability.
yes, Iâm perfectly aware of this and Iâm still waiting for some device to appear. I thought that librem would be the one but for now itâs in a state that itâs far away from being usable for the basic tasks.
I donât know why you want to go to the auction with who did what for FOSS and I think this is not he best place for this. Writing mails however is something that every single user of this forum is capable of doing. Now, how many users is on this forum and how much leverage we would have if everybody here would send such mail?
so you say that I donât want usability?
do you know how to solve this problem?:
please let me know if so cause Iâd like to make some contribution. And right now Iâm kind of blocked with that.
Again, Iâm not going to auction with you on whatâs more important, everyone does what he can and as I stated above. Writing mail is the very basic knowledge that everyone that use internet poses.
Seems to me you confluence FOSS and interoperability. Even if FOSS is preferable, itâs much more about interoperability here. Open or published protocols donât require open source. The Pebble smartwatch is such an example: both watch firmware and original Android app were closed source, but the protocols were published on github. Iâm not interested in de the firmware of my domotica controllers, but thanks to the open protocols I have many software options to choose from - locally, FOSS, or even commercial ready-made cloud-operable solutions. Great!
2 Likes
So it is ok for you to use something closed source and proprietary because it is usable for YOU. But how dare people ask jolla to implement BT passthrough which would make things more usable for them.
Got it.
2 Likes
That would move it out of the âshow-stopperâ category, and into the âit could be improvedâ one.
It would be a more than acceptable compromise for me.
3 Likes
here:
even librem have binary blobs, thereâs some work going on but well.
Someone mentioned here that everybody has some level of acceptance.
I think that working phone that allows you to make phone calls, send sms/mms that last a day is something like a minimum. Also thereâs something one has to keep in mind. To use a taxi you donât need to have an app you can just make a call. And this is the difference.
1 Like
I agree, a Bluetooth toggle between SFOS and Android is a really good idea and will make BT much more usable.
9 Likes