eCall is what I meant. eCall is not entirely different from AML and also required by European law.
Many thanks! Are you allowed to at least name and shame the governments that do not open up the specs*? Iād be interested to know if there is some legislative action that could help in my country.
(Or, by difference: are you allowed to publish a list of countries that have 100% open specifications?)
Well the blame game usually leads nowhere. But you can check the list of countries that have the information set as public on pages 99-100 on the EENA.org 2020 report card. According to EENA representatives that is the most recent list until new information is delivered.
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I did not expect the thread to explode like it did when I posted the original question(s).
I only half-expected an answer at all for itā¦
I certainly did not expect an answer and that some of the suggestions actually being picked up and considered.
So: thank you very much for your well-timed, thorough, and overwhelmingly satisfying answer, @jlaakkonen!
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Excellent little snippet, and very instructive. Thank you for posting it.
You paint the picture of an individual who has a choice, acts on it and is going to live (or not live!) with the consequences.
AML takes away that choice, which is what irritates people who value such thingsā¦
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You already have a choice. Just donāt call emergency services, if you donāt want them to help you. Calling emergency services, but not disclosing your location, is almost never a useful choice. This is a picture of someone choosing illogical options and then complaining that they are not allowed to choose those in the future for some perceived notion of freedom. If you donāt want emergency services to access your location, why bother them with a call at all? They clearly have better things to do.
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Presumably mobile phone developers (including Jolla) have a way of testing AML without actually dialing an emergency number. Is there a special number you can dial and then check the location data that the phone has sent, and its and accuracy?
I was unaware of AML and find it both comforting and disturbing at the same time.
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Maybe an EU law forum is the proper place to discuss that
They have electronic laboratory equipment that simulates a ārealā network under several reception and other conditions without contacting a ārealā cellphone network / go on air with device under test.
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Thank you. Apt quote, apt.
Itās also the number one question the first responder, regardless of which more or less evil nation you live in will ask.
I spent 2 years doing responding to suicide hotline calls. And going in the field. Obviously, the thing you did then (early 1990s) was ask very calmly, āWhere are you. Can you give us your address?ā.
Still, I see the possible abuses. Given that police forces often abuse āspecial powersā, itās a question of whether itās a real āuser initiatesā. So far as I understand, you have to hit the red button first?
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I donāt think anyoneās concern is this service itself how it is NOW advertised to work, but whether itāll remain what it is, i.e. whether at some point it wonāt be used to something completely different than originally intended and advertised.
See the aforementioned Amazon Ring, which was introduced as an innocent doorbell with camera for solely private use but turned out to be sharing everything with state agencies and services, now openly being considered the largest surveillance network ever made. Yes, often serving a good purpose, e.g. helping to catch criminals, but also sharing all your private and even intimate affairs 24/7.
Who can guarantee that after some new āterrorist attackā, or maybe even just a new ācorona variantā, those EU directives wonāt get modified so that services like AML are enforced by law to send your location data based on other events like e.g. when your phone discovers by Bluetooth that a phone of a person who should be in quarantine is in your vincinity. Or that you yourself have left the area you werenāt supposed to leave. Thatās of course for the sake of public security, as always. Thatās what those ācorona appsā were doing that not so many people wanted to install to surveil themselves, so who can guarantee that the next time services like AML wonāt be used for that.
And the worst thing is that all those data collecting and processing services enforced by law are then handled by private companies hired by the state for that. In Poland, the coronavirus app (both the obligatory one for people in quarantine, and the voluntary one to track others) turned out to be administrated by small private company which developed it. According to their EULAās, all data they were collecting (including pictures that quarantined people were required to take and send) will be kept and processed by that company for the period of SIX YEARS. Can you give any valid explanation for why anyone (even the state) would need those pictures (whose only goal was to confirm that youāre not leaving the place of your quarantine) and all the remaining data the apps were collecting and sending out - for SIX YEARS, ie. until 2028?
It is good to raise such questions and openly voice such concerns, while we still can.
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Its all the time battle. People who dont care, ignorants. People who know but believe its for safty matter - oh for my good! People who worry, and always stay on guard, hey hey, you doing it? - okay, tell me why, dont treat me as mass, choice instead constraint.
Funny, as we live in times where left wing is more popular with thier mouth full of liberty, its opposite in realā¦
Its should be clear. If we wants OS which takes own path, know own community. Choice, not constraint. Its not for sake IOs nor Android, isint it?
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Re-read and try to find a single occurence of me having ever written that the Polish covid app uses AML, and then weāll talk.
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Iād say necessary, not good. But, Iāve been involved in civil liberties (current employer netzpolitik.org) activist platforms for a long time. And Iāve noticed that the balancing act sways to and fro. That is, to achieve some āgoodā aim, a measure is seen a being needed (moderating āhateā speech to protect vilified minorities) which then become a measure thatās abused (silencing justified criticism of tools, methods, chain of command). In the end, I ask myself, whatās the net gain?
Not to descend to some purely economical argument, but, if I look at the amount of paper work my GF has to do just to TREAT PEOPLE who are in need, I sometimes just fall to the ground. The fact is, if all of her āpaper-workā goes digital, which it will, itās a net LOSS for our civil liberties. BUT, Iām pretty sure (99%) that itās a net gain for the work. That is to say, that the many administrative hours (not to mention the dollars, pesos, wtf) that go into managing the care giving might migrate to care giving. Of course, itās possible that the savings just go to some corporate leech. Yes, thatās possible. But that is is our responsibility to stop the gaps that let the leeches in.
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Havenāt I already kindly asked you only two days ago to keep away from me? So please do. Thank you very much.
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@poetaster I really understand your arguments. But please consider that if we continue to adjust every aspect of our lives DOWN to the lowest common denominator (in this case to the intellectual level of the least clever citizen in a society) then our civilization will eventually collapse.
Just because there are less clever people who might misuse a switch to turn off this or that (by laboriously dismissing all the warnings that it would first display) doesnāt mean that all such switches should be removed. Just because such a person could possibly cut himself with a sharp knife doesnāt mean that from now on all knives should be blunt. And so on. This is pure insanity.
I am not against this feature. I am against not allowing anyone yet another time to opt-out. EU forces me to be more secure than I need or want to - and that happening more and more often and affecting more and more aspects of my life. Maybe soon it will be forbidden to sell hot coffee because EU will save us from the dangers of scalding with hot liquid.
How did humanity survive thousands of years without AML? How come that the generation of my grandparents lived much longer without AML than the statistical length of life of our generation with all those essential life-saving protections?
As for your example with paperwork in social care, Iām afraid that reducing the paperwork might result in those who were doing it getting fired and requiring social care themselvesā¦
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I think everyone here would appreciate if personal feuds were moved to PMs or ideally solved elsewhere.
I feel this thread has fulfilled its purpose but if you have something to add, keep it on topic please.
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Sorry, finally found it. Had to read the whole thread again. So, no we canāt audit. But the service can be disabled.
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