Advanced Mobile Location (AML) in Vanha Rauma 4.4.0

General
#81

a) They don’t want to distract a person making an emergency call, who is in a distressed state with popups, noises, messages etc. Imagine your kid is calling the fire brigade and popups are going: “Do you want to enable GPS?” “Do you want to enable wifi?” Do you want to send location ?"

b) Emergency services get heaps of bogus calls. From kids having fun causing a fire engine callout, to bomb threats.
They would prefer not to draw attention to the the fact they know the locations of these twats.
If they have an accurate location, then they can clear bogus calls much more quickly, and genuine calls won’t be unable to get a fire truck. For the more malicious calls, they would like to be able to catch and prosecute.

Btw, I would be quite happy to see a default config item in the SFOS like this:

Show silent texts (AML, E911 etc) in Messages = false

It would comply with the requirement that it is not displayed, but allow the paranoid amongst us, (who are already well aware of AML) to “hack” their phones.

3 Likes
#82

A citizen-person does not have to be a paranoid when he asks that the product he buys meets his requirements, not the requirements of the manufacturer, supplier or statutory regulator (of course not absolutely). If I buy a car, then I expect it to be safe and reliable, I do not want to pay for the manufacturer or regulator to have online information about the consumption, how much I have driven and where I have driven.
I teach my descendants independence and responsibility for themselves. If they are governed by the state and the institutions/regulators, they will lose the opportunity to decide on their lives.
Sorry for this “non-technical” opinion, I could also explain it technically, I have worked in computer science for 30 years, but even here in the discussion they are much more adept.
That’s why I asked Jolla to give me the opportunity to decide whether I want to send an emergency SMS, because I want to decide about my life.

7 Likes
#83

Thanks for the explanation :slight_smile: agree.

#84

Not possible, its all in the SoC.
It is possible for the Cosmo Communicator by deleting all the GSM files and repack the rom. Since the SD 630 has been reverse engineered I think it could be possible. I miss those WiFi Only PocketPCs.

#85

I meant physically, with hands+tools

#86

Not possible, its not a seperate GSM modem. Everything is in the SoC, in one chip, including modem, bluetooth, wlan, gfx etc.

#87

Yes but I saw 4 separate tracks on the antenna. Are these tracks not separately dedicated to wifi, gps, gsm…?

#88

According to this discussion I think there is some clarification in place about the current AML implementation:

  • AML on mobile devices is an EU wide regulation as Directive 2018/1972/EC effective on March 2022. The version that is included in 4.4.0 is the first implementation of AML and satisfies the legislative minimum.

  • Regarding AML and location detected by emergency services, it is already done by using cellular tower locations by most of the emergency services, like in Finland they get fairly accurate location when you make the call to the emergency number even without AML. AML is intended to simply make the location information more accurate regardless of where you are by utilizing the techniques available on mobile devices. Granted, this might raise eyebrows on privacy aware individuals that now “they” can track people more accurately but this is really for your safety as when emergency services are being contacted the arrival of the ambulance, for instance, to correct address in order to save lives would have bigger weight than privacy and private location data of the callee.

  • AML is ran as a user session service (started by Ofono plugin) that is enabled only when the call is made to the public emergency services. This is made only for outbound calls and there is no possibility to remotely trigger the service. Plain systemctl-user status aml will reveal the service state (and the ones with shell access can disable this service but I really suggest that you don’t).

  • AML does send the location data as an SMS data message (one of the arguments in the ETSI AML specification is that doing so the AML message does not appear to the user) to the emergency services using the operator network currently being used to make the call. Sending of the messages will start only after emergency services answer the call.

  • In order to get location Geoclue is naturally used and the additional location databases (the Mozilla Location Service positioning packages available at Store) installed by the user may improve the location accuracy and enable to get the location faster. Currently (A)GPS and cellular tower id are used as Geoclue resources to get the location. If there is no location information available a “no location” message defined in the ETSI AML specification is sent.

  • The component is proprietary as of now because there is still a bit uncertainty about certain issues and country based settings. We are in discussion with EENA and later on with the countries in question and after that we can make some decision based on the information as discussion progresses. Validating the proprietary implementation is a good idea, though.

  • Different countries have different requirements for the sequence of messages and how many messages there are required. Some of that data is confidential, and some of the preferences used have been shared by EENA.org. With governmental services our hands are tied, we’re in no position to argue about what they wish to be kept confidential and what is being public.

  • As per to this feedback here, thank you all for that, it might be good to leave this as a final relieving note: it has been taken into consideration to add this into Settings app to toggle whether location information is sent or not.

27 Likes
#89

That’s why I asked Jolla to give me the opportunity to decide whether I want to send an emergency SMS, because I want to decide about my life.

Thank you for the comment. This has been taken into consideration. But please bear in mind that this is also a public safety feature mandated by EU with a directive. And emergency services being a part of public services following the GDPR as well must ensure that the information sent to them is handled with care and with appropriate measures ensuring security to guarantee information privacy.

2 Likes
#90

So if I read that correctly, it would not be in violation of the spec (albeit in violation of its intention ) to provide a switch to the user to always send that “positioning failed” message.

You are correct. This would be the same situation as when the location cannot be determined yet. I.e.,the “no location” message applies to both cases. I cannot speak for certain about every AML server implementation there is but it seems that there are filters in place to simply ignore the messages at PSAP (Public Safety Answering Point) that do not have a valid location.

#91

+++
Thank you very much for these clarifications and the time taken to explain.
Nice to read and understand what happens deeper.
Very important also for us (me?) to understand what Jolla has to face and deal with.

1 Like
#92

“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” - Benjamin Franklin

Everything is for our safety: vaccines, war with Russia, economic war trade with China, war on terror (Afghanistan, Irak, Syria, ISIS,etc.), and so on …

5 Likes
#93

Is there in implementation check for battery state, so if you are low on battery it wouldn’t activate GNSS to save battery. Like in specs 5min for voice call. Or maybe it could be imlementend in way that if battery is below 10% it won’t activate location services.

#94

Yes, there is, all location based services used by AML service are shut down when the battery low, i.e., 10% limit is reached. Or if call is made when the device is on low power the location services are not started. The service will be dormant until battery reaches 5% giving a grace period to find a charger.

4 Likes
#95

Thank you for the information, your time and Jolla’s opinion on this topic.
I am not a priori against AML, it is a useful service that can save many lives (our mountain service uses its own application for this purpose, each tourist can decide whether to use it or not). I would welcome the possibility of setting regarding the location in the SMS, that’s all.

EDIT: I would be comfortable even if this option was in Developer mode.

2 Likes
#96

+1, me too.
10chars + 10chars

1 Like
#97

I am afraid you cannot buy that sort of car since 2018. At least not in the EU. That is one reason why I invest heavily in my beloved old car and motorcycle.

#98

This is always a part of the puzzle when dealing with security vs. privacy. It is not always black and white issue that you give away completely the other while preserving another. Without security one would not have privacy but giving away too much for security will make lose the liberty and freedom, i.e., privacy. Warren and Brandeis in their “The Right to Privacy” article, in 1890, defined privacy also as a right to be left alone which would seem to apply here as well. The times when that article was written was the emergence of governmental intrusion and I think one of the main aims of the article was to bring their concerns about it into the light.

But in light of AML and emergency services that are part of the governmental public services: when you request help from them it is convenient for both for you to give exact details on where you’d need the assistance of public services. After all AML is not about governmental intrusion as what Warren and Brandeis opposed to but asking for help from the public services in a situation where any piece of detail is valuable for the both.

4 Likes
#99

Yes, I can, the Mazda 3 (2020) is such a car, albeit with some compromise - most assistance functions need to be turned off (it is possible to turn them off), no online services :slight_smile: , the only exception is eCall, it can’t be turned off. :frowning:
And the BMW R1200RT (2013) is also completely autonomous, with no online services. :stuck_out_tongue:

#100

The rest of the conversation goes downhill from there :slight_smile:

10 Likes