A foundation for future development

If you’ve read Raine’s Xperia 10 III release blog post, you’ll know that there are a couple of important issues that we’ve experienced with the device adaptation. As it explains there, we had to very carefully balance the impact of these issues against the impact of delaying the release. We ultimately decided it would be better to release with some imperfections. We hope you’ll agree that we made the right call.

First, a glitch in the underlying firmware means that there are some issues related to echo cancellation when making or receiving calls. This affects the person at the other end of the conversation, resulting in substandard audio quality. This is unfortunately an issue in the drivers that we’re unable to fix ourselves since it affects Sony’s AOSP adaptation as well. We’ve managed to devise a workaround when using the speakerphone option, so to avoid this issue we currently recommend using a low volume, wired headset or the loudspeaker.

Second, with the current adaptation only the standard back-facing camera (12 MP, f/1.8, 27mm, 1/2.8", PDAF) is available for use with Sailfish OS, alongside the front selfie camera. This is also as a result of a firmware glitch, however in this case there is a solution, but we didn’t yet get the chance to implement it. Sailfish OS hooks into the Android Camera API to access the camera firmware. The glitch exists in this version of the API, but is fixed in the Camera2 API. Switching Sailfish OS to use the Camera2 API is a large, but not impractical, amount of work. What’s more, because the code that needs changing is open source, and we’ve had a number of excellent contributions to the camera pipeline from the community in the past, we’re hoping we can work together with you i the community to get this resolved in a future release.

If you’re interested and in a position to help with the Camera1 to Camera2 API conversion, we really want to hear so we can align our efforts and get all four of the cameras on the Xperia 10 III working.

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Is this when we make a regular phone call and put the phone on our ear, then the person on the other end will hear his/her echo voice?

If that is eventually fixed in AOSP, will that be fixed in SFOS without reflashing the device? Will there be a fix to it?

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These are unknowns at this stage I’m afraid, but we’ll surely share any info on it as soon as we can.

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This is unfortunately an issue in the drivers that we’re unable to fix ourselves since it affects Sony’s AOSP adaptation as well. We’ve managed to devise a workaround when using the speakerphone option, so to avoid this issue we currently recommend 14 using a low volume, wired headset or the loudspeaker.

as much as i’m tempted to replace my xperia xa2 ultra with a new xperia 10 III this error is a nogo. i’ve experienced similar problems with lineage os and a sony phone and it is not bearable. a phone should at least be able to make normal phone calls. so my upgrade will wait until this bug is fixed.

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Thanks for sharing this @jabgoe. Of course, it’s a shame to hear that, but this is why we flagged the issue up, and we certainly hope it can be fixed so that you (and anyone else in this position) can then go ahead and make the upgrade.

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@flypig well I’m worried about comments from @sledges:

Due to above reading [this comment](https://github.com/sonyxperiadev/bug_tracker/issues/684#issuecomment-809408332) it seems that it won't be possible to fix this for phone calls..

This issue has been fixed for loudspeaker but for the builtin… well could someone confirm this? Cause if this is for sure then I think 10 III is a nogo for a lot of people and could be that it will be pointless to even try to do anything with that phone and waste resources if this is not fixable.

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The foundation for future development cant come from other peoples HW no matter how “open” this is. The issue above -and other- exemplify that.

At some point jolla needs to man up (read put money) and decide on a HW design that can be used both for phones and their automotive ventures. Needs to be as open as possible, replaceable, available, and not necessarily bleeding edge. After all working old > new and buggy.

HW is a problem for jolla since the beginning. For whatever reason they thought HW is the easy part. Well as it was proven it isn’t. You can fix SW but you can never fix HW if you don’t “own” it.

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Is it possible to take the drivers from the commercial firmware, rather than the AOSP branch?
Every user of a 10 III is a paid up, licensed user of those drivers.

I don’t know the answer I’m afraid, but potentially not. For example, see here under “Risks”

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@flypig I dare to suggest that this is another reason to extend the voucher expiry date of the “buy one get one free promotion” to give us more time to decide which phone model to choose. I know this echo issue from a phone with Lineage OS that I set up recently for a relative of mine, and it is almost unbearable. If this thing turns out impossible to fix, the 10 III will be a no-go and the 10 II will become the only viable choice.

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@flypig yes, very nice you flagged that. i’d be much more unhappy if i had had to find this error myself … :slight_smile:

please keep up the information until this error is resolved …

considering the “known issues” section I’d say that Xperia 10 is the only vailable choice as it has the least amount of “known issues”.

Well I think that even if Jolla would OEM the handset there would be Qualcomm SoC blobs that could rise issues too where OEM has no clue how to fix them even if hardware is owned by vendor.

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Thank you Flypig. Yes I have seen the link to the blog and I understand the choice and agree with it. Of course we hope it can be fixed after some time .
I gave My XA2, updated to Vanha Rauma, to my husband. He now has a similar problem, but reversed: when he makes a call, he hears the echo himself.
I don’t know if it has anything to do with it: he used a Gigaset with e-foundation for a while and he had the same problem: other people heard echos… Could it be an android thing? Anyway he’s back on Sailfish and it works for him.

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So what I get here is that stock firmware and AOSP use the the same acdb (audio calibration database) IDs that fixed former issues with echo cancellation on previous models where for some reason AOSP used different IDs.

For the Xperia 10 III however those IDs are equal so both firmwares use the same audio sinks provided by the SoC. Does this mean that in older devices (eg. 10 II) the SoC was actively supressing the callees echo but on 10 III some proprietary echo filter by Sony does the job instead (which is included in stock firmware but excluded from AOSP?).

Sorry, I am now reading that devices on lineageOS have the same problem like that one from the e-foundation. How do they solve it?
I wished a Jolla 2 was coming!

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But instead it has a tiny battery.

Anyway, while the aforementioned licence vouchers expire in just a few weeks, there’s clearly no intention of Jolla to extend them, meaning that we’re forced to make the following blind choice:

  • either get the X10 III with its echo issue that no one can tell if it’s fixable. I know this echo problem from Lineage OS and I can’t imagine having it on a newly purchased phone for 400 Euros that I will be using for important calls

  • or get the X10 II that doesn’t suffer from the echo issue, but still doesn’t have VoLTE and no one can tell if it is ever going to be supported on that model, meaning that if I choose the X10 II in order to avoid the possibly unfixable echo issue, I may soon end up with a device not really usable on any mobile network. I.e. 200 Euros (and the licence) just wasted.

A truly marvellous choice. And that while extending the voucher validity period wouldn’t impose ABSOLUTELY ANY BURDEN to Jolla, the only effect of it being giving us a few more months to consciously decide which phone model to get (and thus which phone model to assign the licence to) while they possibly manage to fix the echo issue or bring VoLTE to X10 II.

But no, they just won’t do it. Very disappointing.

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I believe Jolla have akready said they’ll implement VoLTE on the 10 II next once they have got it working on the 10 III. As for the echo issue, I’ve been using SFOS on my new 10 III for just over a week now and have made dozens of calls (the old fashioned way, I haven’t enabled VoLTE) and nobody has mentioned it. I’ve even called my own 10 III from another phone and didn’t notice it myself. I wonder if this issue depends on the exact Android version present before flashing? I upgraded to the very last Android 11 version before 12 and all seems fine to me.

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About this echo cancellation issue… wouldn’t it only/mainly be relevant when you are using the speakerphone (as opposed to the earpiece)? Given that it is suuuper obnoxious to your environment and the person you are calling anyway, it basically not a real-world use-case outside that one meeting where the other equipment didn’t work.

Nah, it’s the standard use echo not being cancelled, cancellation works for speakerphone usage weirdly enough but not for basic usage