What NOT TO DO as a newbie... Found one on my own!

New PinePhone Pro, been using Linux since Red Hat 1.1, Unix in some flavor or another since 1988 or so, professionally. DELIGHTED to get a phone that’s FINALLY not googlefied, or otherwise a corporate grab on my data. Yay!

FAR from my first tech-forum posting, I figure maybe a narrative form works well for this one.

I checked out the online forums and nobody on any PPP forum I found uses Sailfish, but I figured I’d give it a try, maybe “dual boot,” or such. Better bone up, found talk of devel-sudo. OK… I’m gonna need root.

Phone arrives, GREAT! After waiting 7 hours charging, light still blinking, I got impatient and booted it.

No need for tow-boot, a version of u-boot is now standard delivery on all new PPPs! YAY! Found the logo! So, lets try the u-boot menu?!

No joy. Just sits there “forever.” I gave up. … OK, try whatever this first entry is, references a partition. Try that. Sailfish?! Hmmm…

I wasn’t sure what it was at first. OH, Language! Got it… But when it came to whatever it calls the security code you want to protect the phone I didn’t find an “enter” key, “return,” nothing that told me this is what you do, so I skipped it figuring I can add it later. (You can.) But this wasn’t a good sign. (design bug? Opportunity for improvement?)

Went through the tutorial, time for something serious, gotta get to root.

I’m turned down time and again, even after I figured out how to add the security code. Look online.

I found something about using ssh to get around an su issue, so sure, I want to use it anyway, and while in there I found what sure seemed like it was saying I’m now setting the root password for developer mode! YAY! I’m FINALLY going to get somewhere!

But oops! Cat in lap! Cat owners know about this problem - dog owners too, probably! - and tap! Oh crap?! An accidental tap on something, I think it just said “developer mode”, and the next thing I know it’s saying it’s DELETING DEVELOPER MODE?!

At least I think that’s what it was saying - newbie, remember?

The phone started to freak out as I’m trying to get back in there and turn it on again! Just trying to use the basic user interface to go up and down (scrolling) is instead shifting the whole frame left or right through settings and things are disappearing. Accounts? Whatever, until there was nothing left.

Reboot!

Nope. NOTHING works now. It instantly goes into permanent vibrate mode when trying to boot, but at least it does get back to the u-boot screen.

Bricked it on the first day.

But at least I can wipe it out and start over.

Whoever the fool was who decided we won’t let you into root but we will let you wipe out the entire operating system should be coached in good UI design! Can’t you at least offer “are you sure?!” type protection?! It was just an accidental bump!

NOT a good selling point for SailfishOS.

Will I try it again, or go to a distro I know better? IDK. But this is a real pity because I saw a lot to like about Sailfish.

1 Like

Sincerely hope you know what you were talking about, because after reading this post I have zero idea what you are talking about.

Ah,

Well, it was announced.

Anyway, welcome to the forum!

6 Likes

Thanks for replying, nephros,

My narrative description does make sense to me, but then I lived it.

The lock-out or security code or whatever at the start, was that confusing, the part where on first run it tries to configure the device (PPP in this case)? I was presented a “number pad” available instead of a normal keyboard, and there was no enter or return key - something that indicates “accept input” - THIS newbie to the interface like me doesn’t know how to get it to take the input.

Eventually I figured out that at least in subsequent data entry opportunities where there was a number-pad that there’s also a tiny keyboard logo image in the upper left, far from where I’d have expected it. In a word: Frustrating.

Later, it was in some setup screen where I’d found “developer mode” settings, such as what the IP should be for USB network connections, where I also found a data entry opportunity for the root account’s password. I had just gotten the password set when my cat jumped in my lap and I inadvertently hit SOMETHING on the screen. I think it was simply a line that read “developer mode”.

Once that was touched it instantly displayed something that I think said “deleting developer mode,” and it resulted in bricking the phone.

HTH,
R

just reflash. There are threads on the pine 64 forum about sfos on PP/PPP. There is also a Tg group: Telegram: Join Group Chat

Sir, there is no CAT proof OS while in root mode yet. Please, search for RecoveryMode

1 Like

Sir,

Right, blame the user! Classic deflection tactic.

WHO KNEW I was in “root mode?!” It wouldn’t let me create a new user! NOT in root mode - at least there was NO indication to ME that I was.

And besides, even experienced people make mistakes in root. MOST distros I know by default alias rm, for example to rm -i amd mv to mv -i for root, just to help people not make a dumb mistake. And in THIS instance, there’s ZERO indication that just touching ONE STINKIN’ LINE in a setup screen is going to delete big chunks of whatever!

What would make sense there is to either ASK FOR CONFIRMATION before deleting things, OR, make it NOT a simple touch on the first page of a setup screen - put it DEEPER IN where it’s CLEAR there’s some action that’s going to make a big change if you do it. How about changing the label to “Delete Developer Mode” Even that would be a big help.

It’s simply bad user-interface design.

But thanks for trying to blame me,
R

Sir, it is apparent that you do not want to solve your issue. so you are a troll or AI spammer then you are FLAGGED.

1 Like

One thing here that does often confuse beginners is that the button to confirm the input appears only after entering at least five characters.

Sailfish OS does ask for confirmation in some extreme cases, but it mostly uses an alternative design: when you delete something, it shows a so-called remorse popup that lets you undo the action within five seconds. In fact, this is what happens when you tap on the “Developer mode” toggle switch while it is active: a popup appears saying “Tap to undo - disabling developer mode”. And removing developer mode is not a dangerous action, since it just removes the terminal shortcut and a few packages that can easily be reinstalled.

So you’re right that it takes some patience to get used to the UI in Sailfish OS, but it should make sense once you get to know the details. (The tutorial does not cover everything.) Most mobile Linux users at the moment seem to be ready to figure things out themselves without complaining, or at least ask questions if something seems strange.

Also, when experiencing lots of bugs at once, complaining about all of them together rarely helps.

7 Likes

@rtroy You’re welcome! It’s better to report every single bug or problem in a single thread, so troubleshooting can be targeted better. So don’t hesitate to open more than one thread, but every thread only focused to one single problem. So the problems can be solved one by one without mixing things up.

1 Like

>guy buys developer’s playground, literally prototype device for prototyping

>complains its not end user friendly

what a shock, what a surprise, almost as if it could’ve been VERY easily foreseen

1 Like

Really? This is AI bot.

So, some AI wants to learn about Sailfish OS? Does AI want to steal our knowledge? Boo!

1 Like

Knowledge? No, the only thing that somebody wants from you is your money.

Well, Kan, I think SOME people are in it for the entertainment value. As for me, I was just frustrated.

As for Mister_Magister’s remark about PinePhone Pro, he’s behind the times. It’s transitioning, according to their literature, from a bare-knuckles device to a more developed one and they’ve even given it a new marketing label to match that transition. But hey, to some extent we’re all living in the past!

Some may call me a bad guy because I expressed frustration but then in my case, I certainly don’t recall any pop-up offering to undo the action, which is what I was desperately trying to do at the time. And, I assure you that things were disappearing from the screen and it was hard to control - NOT a well controlled experience (wish I had a video of it) - and it literally bricked it, so how am I supposed to know it’s easy to undo? The phone won’t even reboot with it! Apparently I was supposed to know that?

But hey, I’m not crying about it. PERHAPS it all went weird because the phone hadn’t rebooted after the initial experience? IDK, but if that’s something that helps with stability for things like this removal of developer mode, well… perhaps it should do the reboot itself after the user’s got their initial setup going? IDK, FAR from expert on this topic!

cope harder lol it always was and always will be just a development device

If I were you I would hurry up to reflash the device as soon as possible! As I read about your troubles, it’s only a matter of time until you come into a situation where the device will stuck, boot no more and you would not be the first, who then can’t even access flash mode. Search for ‘bricked device’ in this forum, then you know what I’m writing about.