Total Buggy OS - Xperia 10 Plus

[Seven.of.nine]

@ansch190 : I had similar problems on Xperia 10 two times (weeks/months ago).

It occured after installing some Android apps. It was a serious damage of the system. Deinstalling apps, switching off Android support and even deinstalling Aliendalvik didn’t help anymore.

I had to ‘factory reset’ the phone and to new install all updates. But now everything works like a charm.

All this bllsht came from Android apps, including forcing the phone to send excessive amount of data over the network. I saw this on the LEDs of my router and internet access frrom other computer getting slow. Had also other malfunctions like you wrote

This also persisted after deinstalling Android apps and even Aliendalvik itself. For me I consider as proven that some Android apps via Aliendalvik have the potential to permanently damage the SFOS system.

So I suggest to factory reset your device.

[ansch190]

Thanks, I will try it out.

[WT.Sane]

@Seven.of.nine This seems to be a common.problem also -and not at all surprising- with Android devices.
Not all data is erased after sw deinstallation. Some stuff remains which does or does not interfere with the system. There is Mashka for ckeaning up SF on.openrepos but it doesn’t help with all sw debris and certainly not with Android stuff.

Factory resets are an act of purification that might brighten up your soul as well as your device.

[s_mario]

Aha, the forum police flagged the post from deloptes.

[vige]

Calling other people “forum police” is not only rude and inappropriate, but also off topic in this thread. If you want to discuss the flagging/moderation policies, please create a topic for it in the site feedback category instead of abusing other topics.

[WT.Sane]

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Never mind.

[deloptes]

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yes indeed.

[Steve_Everett]

To all those who feel the need to censor other users’ posts, please note carefully the following:

From the Forum guidelines, Jolla’s Terms of Service:

" Foster freedom. We do not believe in walled gardens, we prefer the open sea. We want our products and services to free you to express yourself as you see fit, not lock you down to a view of the world imposed on you by us.

“Improve the Discussion. … Be respectful of the topics and the people discussing them, even if you disagree with some of what is being said.”

If You See a Problem, Flag It … With your help, moderators can be community facilitators, not just janitors or police."

So referring to moderators as ‘police’ is therefore already an acceptable term for Jolla.

Post Community Flagging Edit:

In my posts I have always tried to be reasonable, factual and objective.

This post simply asks those who are censoring my posts and those of others to take note of the Jolla Terms of Service and Forum Guidelines that I have quoted, nothing more. There is no opinion here, no view, just simply a direct copy and paste of Jolla’s own text.

However, somebody (who?) has disagreed with this and censored my post yet again with no explanation and no feedback as to why they feel it is unreasonable to ask them to consider Jolla’s own terms of service. No challenge has been offered and no counter argument put forward.

There are other posts on this same subject, and in the same vein, by other authors, both before and after my own, that have not currently been censored, so I now consider this behaviour to be targeted at me personally. Clearly if these other posts are now censored only after this comment has been read then this will add further weight to this conclusion.

This behaviour is totally unacceptable on a public forum and amounts to victimisation.

If this situation is not rectified immediately, along with an apology from the people concerned, I will be escalating this issue to Sami Pienimäki, the CEO of Jolla.

[deloptes]

I am just testing the system. your questions are legit.
I used the term “communist party” because I lived in communism and I know how it feels.
And yes it feels similar.
Anyway - lets hope that this discussion will bring some fruit

[WT.Sane]

Guys, I’m out.
I live in a place where we are somewhat sensitive when it comes to comparisons with dictatorship and stuff.

On the other hand I feel personally disgusted discussing with people who on one side know the real secret and only truth behind it all and on the other side are watching out for their countless and well organized homogeneous enemies.

Anyway. Wrong thread for me.

[olf]

But the private message one receives when a message is flagged contradicts Jolla’s statements @Steve_Everett cited:

This post was hidden due to flags from the community, so please consider how you might revise your post to reflect their feedback. You can edit your post after 10 minutes, and it will be automatically unhidden.
However, if the post is hidden by the community a second time, it will remain hidden until handled by staff.

As the “anonymous censors” do not provide any feedback (and there is no incentive for them to do so, rather the opposite), these rules simply foster censorship.
The crucial point is that suppressing messages can be done in total anonymity: This spurs this special kind of “trolling in the dark” behaviour.

P.S.: As this “forum police” behaviour turns out to be a larger, structural issue (because it is rooted in the forum policies set by Jolla), one may follow @vige’s request, “to discuss the flagging/moderation policies, please create a topic for it in the site feedback category”.
I think this thread nicely depicts how the extant forum policies foster passive-aggressive, hidden-domiant behaviour. Triggering this a couple of times was well worth it to create examples and to prove that this is a permanently recurring behavioural pattern of some forum members.
Plus one has to reflect about the exhibited behaviour to extract the underlying structural issues nourishing it.

[ansch190]

Hey guys back to topic? An update on my part, I have now completed the update and so far everything works. Random closing Apps are normal at this Version. It’s my daily device. How long it works, i don’t know. But for now it’s ok.

[Steve_Everett]

In my posts I have always tried to be reasonable, factual and objective.

My recently censored post simply asks those who are censoring my posts and those of others to take note of the Jolla Terms of Service and Forum Guidelines that I have quoted, nothing more. There is no opinion there, no view, just simply a direct copy and paste of Jolla’s own text.

However, somebody (who?) has disagreed with this and censored my post yet again with no explanation and no feedback as to why they feel it is unreasonable to ask them to consider Jolla’s own terms of service. No challenge has been offered and no counter argument put forward.

There are other posts on this same subject, and in the same vein, by other authors, both before and after my own recent post, that have not currently been censored, so I now consider this behaviour to be targeted at me personally. Clearly if these other posts are now censored only after this comment has been read then this will add further weight to this conclusion.

This behaviour is totally unacceptable on a public forum and amounts to victimisation.

If this situation is not rectified immediately, along with an apology from the people concerned, I will be escalating this issue to Sami Pienimäki, the CEO of Jolla.

[olf]

@Steve_Everett, please hold your horses!

1. As you seem to have quite some motivation to resolve this, please follow @vige’s request, “to discuss the flagging/moderation policies, please create a topic for it in the site feedback category” (as denoted before).
   So @ansch190 can ultimately have his thread back.
2. I will sure support you (and likely a few others), but currently lack the time to create a concise write-up from the messages and observations here for that new thread.
3. I fully agree that this should be escalated until it is resolved. But mind how slow the clock at Jolla seem to be ticking, plus that we shall have a proper suggestion for a better flagging-policy than just criticising the current one (which definitely promotes this passive-aggressive muting behaviour). This suggestion also has to avoid increasing the workload for Jolla.

HTH; when you have started a new thread at the appropriate location, you might drop a link to it here, as a last message WRT this excursion.

[Steve_Everett]

@olf

@Steve_Everett, please hold your horses!

1. As you seem to have quite some motivation to resolve this, please follow @vige’s request, “ to discuss the flagging/moderation policies, please create a topic for it in the site feedback category ” (as denoted before).

Hold my horses indeed!

As a lawyer I have been involved in cases where freedom of expression has been suppressed in the absence of any reasonable or legal justification to do so - and most of these cases, unsurprisingly, have a technology element to them - mainly social media based. So I know the harm and bad feeling that this behaviour can cause - indeed in some cases it has been found to be a form of bullying and/or harassment.

I also note that @ddobrev is planning to raise the issue of forum censorship at the 30th September community meeting.

I have already started drafting such a post for the feedback category as suggested covering the issues so far, some observations, and some proposals on how moderation could be handled differently and more fairly as an objective tool of last resort, rather than a subjective tool of first response. This will take me a few days at last as my time is also limited. But when I have posted I would welcome other community members’ views on the subject and what ideas they may have to improve matters.

As for Jolla’s ‘slow ticking clock’ - there are of course ways around this to focus attention. Free speech, expression and the censorship of this is something that should greatly concern us all. Jolla is already on record as supporting this (" Foster freedom. We do not believe in walled gardens, we prefer the open sea. We want our products and services to free you to express yourself as you see fit, not lock you down to a view of the world imposed on you by us") so I sincerely hope we will be pushing at an open door.

@ansch190 can have his thread back now

[deloptes]

Thank you @olf - I really wanted to test this and managed to get banned for 1 week

[deloptes]

I will become political and will probably trigger another ban, so I should behave as required. Just like in Communist Europe I grew up. And this feeling is the one that is buzzing me to the roof.
I couldn’t believe my assumptions are indeed true.
I am not sorry for what I wrote or how I wrote it.
I am sorry for the people, who think this behavior is right and they participate. I am also for the people that flagged my post to trigger the ban.
And I share your concern fully as these people do not have a clue of democracy but pretend and indeed destroy democracy.

Never mind guys, I love you all and forgive you for what you’ve done which you should also learn (thanks God after communism I understood what Christianity is all about).

Now back to the topic. I installed 4.2.0.21 and now BT can be turned on and off without issue - GREAT Jolla fixed it couple of months later (ironically)
However now I can not connect to the HFP or A2DP I have in the car … the 3.3.0.16 still works without issues.
I will not use harsh words this time, but … you can refer to my posts from before
Start properly testing please, you support anyway limited number of devices. It is simply unprofessional to release rubbish (well not everything is, but BT is a PITA since bluez5 was adopted and I am absolutely right to be pi***d - 4years already).

thank you all
best regards

[poetaster]

It’s just a coincidence, but i recently (yesterday?) got the forum karma that my flagging something would be of consequence. What that means is that forum users, just like you and me are doing the flagging. so, I’m afraid escalating it to upper management is futile. Asking for reasonable behaviour from your fellows is about the best you can do.

[Steve_Everett]

@poetaster

What that means is that forum users, just like you and me are doing the flagging. so, I’m afraid escalating it to upper management is futile. Asking for reasonable behaviour from your fellows is about the best you can do.

Sadly I agree with you. See Forum censorship - The Issue - #26 by Steve_Everett as well.

[olf]

@poetaster

What that means is that forum users, just like you and me are doing the flagging.

This is what I always assumed to be the most likely case.

so, I’m afraid escalating it to upper management is futile.

IMO this statement does not make sense, doubly so.

1. The “upper management” does not care about this forum at all. They care about big licensees (the one) and their shareholders (value).
   That is why the statement of yours is correct, but IMO meaningless.
2. It never was the plan (at least from my POV) to escalate this topic to the upper management. We are not really able to reach them, any way.
   What needs to be done IMO, is to make the middle-management aware that the rules / configuration Jolla has set for this forum are fostering totalitarian behaviour by some users, hence causing friction and conflicts, which might result in users turning away.
   Side note: IMO this also results in a down-selection of the users here, because it specifically hits the critical and open-minded users, while the ones urging for pink ponies with golden glitter saddles will stay and ultimately get what they want: A “totally buggy OS”, which is redefined as “shiny, nice, bug-free and pink” (as in “2 + 2 = 5”).