i think the manners in this forum went down and thats why i did respond at all
i blame it on corona and the lock downs and not the people themselve
the brain genuis who is going to shut up
welcome
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@pawel.spoon it might be that Corona increases the heat, but the issue is here definitely before Corona.
I don’t think it is necessarily true that people always expect to get everything free. However, I do think it is a reasonable expectation that if you pay for a product then that product actually works as advertised and/or intended - and I don’t see why Sailfish should be any different just because its inexpensive to buy.
After all, if you bought an inexpensive new car it might not have the leather seats, satnav, sunroof, air conditioning, etc of a more expensive car, but you’d still expect it to drive properly, be safe, and generally function, well, like a car, wouldn’t you?
Or would you just hand over your money and be perfectly happy that the brakes only worked occasionally, the radio could only pick up one station and the engine only ran intermittently?
And then when you reported these faults to the dealer, and he told you that some of your problems might be fixed in a few months, or maybe a few years, or maybe never, would you just be content to shrug your shoulders and say “yeah well, it was a cheap car so I really shouldn’t expect it to ever work properly”?
However, if you bought your inexpensive car having first been told that it wasn’t a properly sorted production model suitable for everyday drivers, that not everything you would expect from a modern car was working, that the company who designed it was small and couldn’t afford to fix problems within a reasonable timeframe - that basically the car was for ‘developmental testing purposes only’ then that would be completely different and a much more honest approach.
So, yes, an expectations mismatch for ‘normal users’, but one that is perpetuated by Jolla themselves.
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If you experience any serious problems with:
- Android App support
- Exchange support
- OTA updates
- customer support
There is reason to complain - and there is definitely something about the update process that leads to serious problems under certain conditions. Anything else is not covered by the license you paid for and can be used by everyone everywhere without paying Jolla anything at all.
To take your car analogy, this is more like if Jolla provided a car to everyone free of charge, and asked people to pay some money if they wanted a radio, a back seat or a number to call when the car breaks down.
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Yep, a free car with a paid for radio (that still only picks up one station in Kenya when it should pick up multiple stations in any country), a paid for back seat (that keeps toppling over every third time you sit on it), and paid for support number (that all you get when answered is “I’m sorry we can’t take your call, we’re really busy right now - but please leave a message and we might get back to you and sort your problem in a few months, or maybe a few years, or maybe never. Your call is really important to us.”) 
Or maybe not a free car, because even with the free version of Sailfish you have to have bought a phone first to actually run it on, and Sony phones aren’t especially cheap.
So perhaps a refined analogy is that the only bit that’s free is the basic functions of the car (steering, engine, brakes, etc) - you still have to purchase the chassis (the phone) yourself to install the engine, steering and brakes in (the free Sailfish OS), and then the paid optional extras on top if you need them - radio, seats, support (Sailfish X).
However, when you purchase Sailfish X and install it on top of the free version and its presence causes other problems with the underlying free core software (that would otherwise not be present) then any problems with the functionality of that free core software caused by the paid component would also be grounds for complaint.
Again with the car analogy - if you paid for the optional extra radio from the dealer but this kept overloading the car’s electrical system such that fuses blew and the ‘free’ windscreen wipers would no longer work then the customer has a right to be pretty upset that he/she could no longer drive their ‘free’ car in the rain (when they could before they bought the radio).
Under UK and EU Consumer law (not sure about any other jurisdictions) legal liability for the fault in the paid component, and any consequential loss of functionality in the unpaid (to Jolla) components, including any liability for resulting compensation for such failures (including the phone hardware purchased separately as a pre-requisite to installing even just the free version of Sailfish), would sit with the supplier (i.e. Jolla).
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Hi I did not try any command line options . I tried system utilities reset UI and that did not help.
when this bug happens my only real choices are to either ipower down and restart or wait 10 mis or so and magical the applications start working or if im lucky… a new message or call comes in and after I hang up the application will open again…its crazy and frustrating especially if you need to reply to a text and hangs…
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You and folks like you that blame the user for bad quailty assurance.
You mistake constructive criticism and bug reports as a lack of tolerance.
Its not. We all risked destroying our high functioning phone that had a good OS on it and downgraded to Jolla sailfish… this is a fact.
Yes we knew it what it was not going to be. But its not wrong or unrealistic to expect the OS to be what the developers said it would be.
There is no guidance from Jolla that tells the user that we have to goto to terminal and get creative because of poor QA on the developers part.
No were is it written by jolla that you must deal with a phone that may be crippled for months.
That fact alone that we followed the devs guidance on how to do the leg work to install the Sailfish os and remove the android negates your theory of the case of unrealistic expectations
Jolla says let’s Jolla Together … to me that means our diversity in knowlege, experiences and expectations have a home here.
Its not for you to tell us we are wrong for wanting basic functionality to be consistent after all these year working with this os.
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Still trying to find out why I am quite content with SFOS … despite the undeniable flaws
I guess it is due to expectations. My expectation (that is neither met by Android nor by iOS – I have to confess that I used Android a bit prior to flashing SFOS and the I also must use an iPhone because that is our office standard) that I want to have control over my phone and that it works offline, i.e. without relying on cloud services. And of course I like a clean UI and fair multitasking support. I never use MMS and I hardly use Android apps – mostly for banking, CovPass, train and fight tickets and even LinkedIn. So far, even none of these Android apps has let me down.
@808: apparently you have different expectations and I fully understand that you are disappointed because SFOS does not meet your expectations. And you well may blame Jolla for raising expectations that finally are not met.
For the sake of this forum and to move things in the right directions (because there are multiple expectations thus requiring prioritizing some) it would be helpful to better understand
-
What the core deficits are that basically affect everyone (i.e. mobile connectivity)
-
Under what circumstances do these basic requirements fail?
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What can/should Jolla do about it?
-
Do we understand what is failing why?
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What are personal expectations/feature requests not yet met? (for me it would be being able to Citrix, but due to a lack a virtual keyboard in Citrix (no so in other Android apps) and lacking support of HW keyboards with Jolla’s Android support, Citrix cannot be used (anymore))
-
How many potential users would need a feature I am missing?
I have got the impression that some problems with 4.3 might only surface on updated devices while newly flashed devices like an Xperia 10 ii are not affected. I guess this should be observed closely.
Blaming neither solves problems nor brings us new features.
Back to the beginning: to avoid disappointments due to not-met expectations a clearer communication for Jolla’s side would be very helpful. But then again: Jolla is just a small boat that needs to make many tacks and jibes instead of following a straight course – because Jolla needs to respond to obstacles form outside much quicker than the bigger ships. I might have adjusted my expectations to these circumstances (learned my lesson with some Jolla tablet support years ago
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Well, thanks for the compliment but it is undeserved. My English is only good because I am English and it is therefore my native language.
yes you and i did that and we did that on free will
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Calling Android ‘good’ just because it has a lot of proprietary apps you got used to is a bit much. Everything phones home to Google, everything depends on Google, the UI is nonsensical and full of buttons too small to press, it can’t even index media files properly because Google wants you to stream everything, the OS requires a massive battery so as not to run out of juice in a couple of hours, and it - literally - requires more RAM than a mid-range desktop computer to run decently. Anything is an upgrade over Android.
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Perhaps your Android experience depends upon which phone and which version of Android.
I am lucky as I can make a direct comparison between Sailfish and Android because I have two identical XA2’s (H3113), one running Android 9 and the other running Sailfish 4.3. Since I use them both interchangeably (I go back to the Android XA2 or my iPhone 12 when I get too frustrated with Sailfish on occasions!) they have pretty much the equivalent apps and use patterns (phone calls, email, messaging, slack, news, whatsapp, calendar, etc).
The Android XA2 is noticeably faster at loading apps than the Sailfish XA2 (for native apps especially since the introduction of Sailjail’d apps which now seem to load much more slowly than of old) and also running apps (e.g. web page loading in Chrome is instantaneous). The battery life is also way better on the Android XA2, but this may be because it has better battery management functionality (though I do use battery buddy on the Sailfish XA2). I can get nearly a day and a half out of the Android XA2 on average, whilst the Sailfish XA2 usually runs out of puff at the end of each day. Obviously the stability of the Android XA2 is far better than that of the Sailfish XA2.
Almost none of the above Sailfish ‘disadvantages’ is a problem for me as I’m not particularly fussed about exactly how fast apps load to the nearest second, and battery life of a day is also fine (I just recharge over night).
The biggest pain in the backside of the Sailfish experience for me is its lack of stability - when it all works I love it more than IOS or Android, but when it (regularly) doesn’t in one respect or another, whether its Android connectivity issues, regular mail synchronisation failures, Exchange calendar items synchronised with UTC servers displayed an hour later than they should be, phone audio disappearing mid call, phone calls coming in ‘silent’ with no ringing or visual notifications, ‘Open With’ dialogs suggesting apps that can’t actually open the file concerned, or multiple other issues of a less or more severe nature, you have got to wonder why a lot of this really obvious stuff wasn’t picked up in testing before release.
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What I am saying is that in 2016 Sailfish OS worked much better than now and the phone was and is still usable. Even the Xperia X phone with 3.3.0.16 has less issues than the new 10 II.
- it stops ringing at random
- fingerprints disappear at random
- when using Here Maps in the car and listening music, after navigation audio is played the music does not resume automatically.
[solved] 4. Bluetooth did not want to pair with the car audio for 1 month but then it decided to do so
These are my top 3 blockers and I will be looking forward to update the phonebooks and go back to the Xperia X in the weekend. I want to have one relaxed Christmas and not being frustrated by the brick into which the 10 II was turned with Sailfish 4.3.0.12. Waiting for Christmas to bring me a working version and some reflection to Jolla.
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I agree on your number 1 & 2.
Number 3 is not a user case for me so not an issue that I know off.
Number 4 BT in car is an issue but since I got a working connection it seems to work.
The biggest issue for me at the moment is the constant issue of MMS that refuses to download and I have the same issue when sending MMS. Always need toggling WiFi on/Off etc. and recently it seems that the download is OK if I have WiFi enable when I receive an MMS.
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I fully understand that as a paying customer your expectations are high.
You paid the fee for a passage over high seas on a very tiny boat. Lunch might be served on the ground of the ocean.
You did not expect that. Point taken.
The good thing is: You can leave anytime for the two cruising ships sailing right behind.
In no time you are back to comfort zone.
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Hi,
My expectations are not high… that is a myth if the thread. My expectations are very much inline with most people that choose jolla and sailfish.
My point is that QA must be better. Expecting a basic user to fix issues using terminal is not acceptable as this is not some freshman year cimputer science side project.
If issues can be fixed in terminal that means they should be fix in the release.
My only real expectation that may differentiate my experience from others is that tolerance for some sort of movement on user QOL request made as far as 5 year ago is wearing thin.
The total disregard and unwillingness to acknowledge basic improvements has been stunning.
And the series of bugs in the last few releases have also been stunning misses.
It’s not out of line to ask what did we pay for…and why should a user support these efforts and change sets that ignore basic spec phone must haves.
Like most of you we followed jollas documentation and used our phones with android (my first time ever using an android phone) And it was top shelf ( Symbian The Meego user for my whole cell phone life)…
So that why I typed that Android was a high functioning and matire is…
My expectations are for devs to test their software before release to make sure
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So you expected the comfort of a cruising ship and took the tiny boat.
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What is this thread actually about except for ranting?
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I took the tiny boat knowing that it was a tiny boat, and not expecting to have my own cabin, or a TV, or a restaurant on board.
I did however expect the boat builder to check that his tiny boat didn’t leak before it set sail, and am disappointed that I have to spend most of my voyage bailing out water with a variety of buckets and other makeshift containers.
A better analogy?
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