I speak only for myself but I bought my 10 V with a slight risk before the official announcement of SF support so that I won’t miss out because I need a new device or most specifically a new battery. Gots a nice rosegold mandala flip cover for it too. I only powered it up last week in anticipation that 4.6 would be immediately available for it.
If I had had any kind of idea that Jolla would actually be bringing out a new device of their own with pre-installed SF, I have absolutely no idea which way I would have tilted. I liked Aqua Fish a plenty. But this is how it went now.
From the point of view of a pure user (not a developer or nerd):
I would prefer a monetized model where you can
a) Support the app developers and Jolla via app payment in a store.
b) The AAS updates would be paid for if they came twice a year. There may be differences in price (11.99 / 19.99€).
In addition, the price of 49.99 for the full package should be retained.
It is interesting for the user that something substantial comes along with the AAS updates (Bluetooth, NFC, banking, browser, camera [ok, driver-dependent - will probably not be feasible]). Eliminating serious bugs (phone functionality) should be a matter of course in a timely manner.
Of course, you can’t implement a noticeable improvement in every update. Sometimes the substructure also needs to be adapted.
The greater the noticeable improvement steps, the more willing I am to pay more money for the update.
Of course, this is a selfish view of a user and does not take into account any economic considerations for a company.
For AI you just need a bunch of morons that kick the black box until something that looks like a usable result falls out. For a predictive text engine you actually need developers and at least one guy that knows data structures.
Complex software projects like whole platforms aren’t developed overnight by spending a big lump sum in one of, but a constant trickle of cost. When you have that constant trickle you can actually plan ahead with some amount of certainty and make long term goals.
As for your “Well get someone else to pay for it because I don’t wanna”, that’s just monumentally entitled.
Sure, a few people may throw temper tantrums and go thru the huge hassle of switching to another platform because they didn’t like the latest patch notes. However those types of adult children are the exception, not the rule.
In software, mass exoduses of userbases like you’re describing are very rare and primarily for when open source projects go “I have altered the deal. Pray that I do not alter it further” with their licenses and go totally proprietary. In those cases the userbase exodus is the least of their problems.
Just look at VMWare under Broadcom. Mass discontent with the licensing changes in many circles, but profits are actually up, not down. No mass exodus and the userbase is largely staying.
Like I said; Actual real world examples show that the kind of sudden mass user exodus you keep trying to insist might happen don’t actually exist. This insistence on your part is pure projection. Nothing more. Hence I call this a childish temper tantrum because most people are adults and behave like ones.
As for incidental reasons why people drop out, they’re just that. Incidental. They’re never going to be a large portion of your userbase. Only realistic mass exodus like you keep insisting is if they go and do something so bad the exodus is the least of their problems or their userbase consists of people on the mental level of children.
Compared to me and me still using original Xperia 10 your replacing of devices is absolutely constant.
Yet there you were moaning about Jolla “giving away” SailfishOS without those features and how you thought there was this huge number of “freeloaders” using SailfishOS without paying that Jolla should make pay for any access to SailfishOS.
No, its beyond obvious these are just people dipping their figurative toes and more probably helping grow the platform rather than freeload off you.
If you’ve read my other posts you’ll know I’m not happy about the subscription fee either. I’d have much preferred the one time payment even if it got doubled, but that model clearly not working means they’ve got to try something else.
Your suggestions of killing the free version because of imaginary freeloaders and “Well get someone else to pay you” are suggestions for alternatives. Yes. But exceptionally poor ones.
Lowering the barrier of entry by removing the up-front lump sum payment is, unfortunately, better than any alternative suggestion I’ve seen so far, including yours. My preference would’ve been to have both longer lump sum licenses and the subscription with no up-front payment. Something I hope Jolla might be convinced to at least consider.
That’s pretty rich considering you rushed to calling me a “shaved sheep” in your first reply to me…
In Finland we have a saying; “Se joka leikkiin ryhtyy, se leikin kestäköön” which roughly translates into English as “He who starts a game, has to bear it when it doesn’t go their way”. If you’re going to insult someone, don’t go crying to your mother when you get insulted in return. Especially when you do so immediately.
You keep proving that you understand absolutely NOTHING from what you’re being told. No one here (and certainly not me) ever questioned the need to pay and support the development of the OS. Very much on the contrary, I wrote that multiple additional possible revenue sources should be taken advantage of to get more funds from more users (including those who don’t buy licences), because with user base this small licence sales or subscriptions won’t ever suffice.
Oh, and while we’re at paying Jolla, then it is me (as opposed to you with your half a decade old Xperia 10, i.e. zero money passed by you to Jolla for years) who regularly supports SFOS development (Jolla1, three SFOS X licences). So, once again, please cut that cr*p.
What you rudely call moaning, in reality turned out to be feedback and arguments that Jolla found valid and reasonable enough to make them change their decision and officially confirm today that based on users’ feedback they’ve decided to both keep the “perpetual” licences with fixed one-time fee, and also an option of yearly payments, in addition to monthly subscriptions.
So what I was writing here at least resulted in such useful and positive change that will certainly enable much more people to keep supporting Jolla and SFOS, whereas your unfriendly rants and insults only burned pixels on people’s displays.
Exactly. So I’d suggest you to cut that stream of “autistic man-child like yourself”, “massively entitled and totally delusional” and more, because I’ve never, not a single time, wrote to you a single personal insult like that, as can be easily verified in my previous posts to you. Anyway, how you throw such epithets only speaks about yourself and what kind of person you are, so actually do whatever you want.
Finally some points to Jolla for listening the community. I write again that I think subscription fans are a minority here. As you mentioned majority that are against monthly subscription bought multiple licenses, in comparison with the eco nazis who are using same phone since last century ( best example @L_A_G ) but hey they are the ones who “will” support Jolla monthly. I bet that majority of them will pay 5 euros now and then for the updates, and guys like @wetab73 will buy license for 10V and 10VI even if he will never own a 10 VI.
What you think is kinda irrelevant, as you just lumped LAG into the pro-subscription camp even though he stated on multiple occassions he’s not fan of it, what actually will happen is LAG and many more will have a subscription running and not care about it that much, as for them a coffee a month is no big deal, next up is the current camp of ‘bring us perpetual’ going crazy when it turns out avg usage is 3 years and jolla announces perpetual licensing at 150€, expect a lot of walls of texts how this is UNREASONABLE because xyz99 changes phone on avg every 1.5 years and the whole circus will start again, cya soon
Whatever it will be it will be TOO MUCH and ‘I really want to support jolla but even though inflation in the last 12 years is like 300% this is just too much’ insert two more pages of pointless CEO wannabe drivel and asking to see the manager… Speculation and denying facts (like what the actual CEO said on stage twice) is what these people feed on, just watch
150€ would certainly be an insane price given that e.g. Windows 11 is $139 (which is around €120 or so) without counting any regular discounts. So yes, in such case I’d certainly express my dissatisfaction and I just wouldn’t pay that much. I would actually consider it an unaffordable price.
“Walls of text” is the favourite slogan of those who have problems with reading and understanding what they read. Clever persons address validity and correctness of arguments and opinions voiced and not the number of characters it took to express them. Whereas intellectually challenged ones get confused and annoyed when facing too much content to cope with, let alone understanding it and giving a meaningful answer.
No, it will NOT, just like the old price of 49.99€ wasn’t. There is a reasonable margin for that price’s increase that simply will be accepted. Then there is some further margin that people will need to think about whether it would be reasonable to pay that much and if one can afford it. And only beyond that there is some level of pricing that will be simply considered not worth paying or beyond ones budget.
What is the point of writing by you such provocative things? To incite conflicts? Because it is completely unproductive and useless at this point.
Time will show what kind of pricing Jolla will offer, and whether it’ll be feasible and affordable to everyone or not. It is in Jolla’s own interest to choose pricing that’s achievable to the largest possible group of people and not to a tiny niche. 150€ or 100€ certainly wouldn’t be commonly affordable, especially if assessed not in emotional “support for Jolla” terms but the actual added value one receives for that payment, i.e. AppSupport and MS Exchange support only.
Anyway, it is an utter waste of time to discuss it in such a hostile manner that you’re imposing and before any actual details are decided upon by Jolla. So EOT from me.
Fans? I don’t think anyone here has said they prefer the monthly payments and we’re instead saying its something we’re willing to live with if it’s what’s necessary for Jolla and SailfishOS to go on.
But hey, it’s easier to just make stuff up rather than actually read what people are saying and ask to clarify if something is unclear…
Contrary to what you quite clearly believe, somebody disagreeing with you doesn’t mean they don’t understand what you’re saying. What you say can be pure nonsense and calling you out on your imaginary freeloaders running SailfishOS in a state you agree is not usable as a “daily driver” is just that. Pure nonsense. Similarly, this “Well get someone else to pay for this” is also nonsense and very, very entitled.
Also, you haven’t paid Jolla all that much more money than I have considering I too had (still have) a TOH and paid for two SailfishX licenses. So you really don’t have anything to laud over me in this regard, contrary to what you think.
Yes, you moaned until they changed things so they’d keep doing something that didn’t actually work.
What’s left to see is if doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results actually works or is the definition of insanity.
I see you’re not really capable of self-reflection seeing how I literally quoted the first insult here, coming from you in your first reply to me, in my last post. If you can’t take people insulting you, don’t just insult them by calling them “shaved sheep” right off the bat because they dared to disagree with you.
To put it as simply as I can; You can’t insult people and then get offended they insult you in return.
Don’t want to get insulted? Don’t insult them first and especially not just for disagreeing with you.
Social media is more proof of this “Mass exoduses don’t really happen” than anything. Facebook may have become deeply uncool with people under 40, but its still a huge platform and massively profitable. Twitter too has barely shrunk and still has over 360 million active users since Musk took over.
Twitter’s problem is more that the emboldened neo-nazis and other nasties, that have flocked there in droves, have in turn driven off advertisers. Something that has always been an issue as the platform’s never been able to do much more than break even.
Oh so you think Jolla and SailfishOS is just a big practical joke then? Trying out how substandard they can make it before people stop paying for it?
I never called you a “shaved sheep”. What I really wrote was that by agreeing to pay subscriptions you will “keep being shaved like a sheep, more and more, because just switching to subscriptions surely won’t help much, and regularly increasing the fees will surely occur”.
“To be shaved like a sheep” means silently permitting to being taken advantage of. It is a metaphor, not an offence.
And similarly with everything else. So stop twisting and distorting what’s never been said, while at the same time yourself throwing purely personal epithets like “totally delusional, autistic man-child like yourself”. And generally stop wasting eveyone’s time, because no one here (and certainly not I) is interested in what you think about me (and your recent posts carry no other content but that).
Really? What is your Myspace? Want to chat over ICQ?
These networks are not profitable at all, they are running because they are very useful to entities like the NSA. Facebook is nothing more than LifeLog:
I see where this is going, you do not like free speech. Why even bother with Sailfish then?
Social networks will never be profitable, because they provide no real value to the user. The people have a social network account because their friends have one, not because they want one. They never think about what they want, they just follow the herd.
What Whatsapp did and is still doing for example is absolutely forbidden in the EU, they collect a huge amount of private data without consent of the owners of that data and with that tactic replaced ICQ and other messengers that did not do that, were not allowed to do that. Because the whole EU is a vassal of the United States, noone ever interfered with this behaviour.
Data is the profit and it is invaluable.
Time passes and might prove me right at some point.
Perfect written! What I find interesting is that some people here claim that are using Sailfish for privacy while in the same time they complain that WhatsApp is not working properly. Crazy stuff
