I think it’s better if we stop talking about their behaviour since the mods suggested it, but as for what you said, I agree it’s natural to be angry when it’s about something you’re passionate about, but the difference is how you express it and if you’re actually impartial about it.
You can’t just call scammer every person who disagrees with your standards of privacy and security, because that’s a serious accusation and your standards aren’t flawless either.
GrapheneOS has its problems as well, but when other people point them out, they get angry, hyper-defensive (aka, “spreading lies about us”-“shut up or I’ll ban you”) and even try to delete those informations (which happened with F-droid, who was threatened with repercussions unless they deleted the thread related to GmsCompact being a fake security feature on GrapheneOS, which they still refused to do. Or with Bromite, who was asked to delete their discussion to hide Daniel’s impulsive attitude).
That’s just double standards, and shows that you’re more interested in “appearing correct” and promoting your product than actually educating people on privacy and security. Where’s the passion in that?
I think nobody would have complained if they just explained politely some of the problems with other projects without accusing anyone of harassment or scamming behaviour over the years, while also gladly accepting criticism related to their own problems, but that’s not what happened at all.
And that’s leaving aside all the other worrying stuff, unrelated to the OS’ development, surrounding their leader and his behaviour.
As for Sailfish, it’s fine if you have criticism about it (my point wasn’t that they are wrong for criticising it or any other project, but how they go about it and their hypocrisy considering they aren’t perfect either), and I hope they will take them into consideration.
That makes a lot of sense. I am not familiar with the GrapheneOS so just checked your links and calyxos and calyxos’s homepage, is, as I said, a bit problematic. I didn’t realize the magnitude and repeating of such questionable behaviors, thanks for the clarification.
on handsets made by Google. A very, very, very small mobile world that.
A bit curious why a Android ROM is not a OS but a Linux distribution is? This seems to be emphasized a lot through the thread but I failed to grasp it.
It is of course an OS - but putting so much emphasis on it is disingenuous. It is Android, the same way as Brave is Chrome(ium).
Quoting myself - what is the difference between a Linux distro and Android?
GrapheneOS branded phone.
GrapheneOS branded cpu ! Are you serious ?
The behavior of this G(raphene)/G(oogle) community is more like a sect.I won’t pay a penny for anything related to G,even if it’s just a simple logo!Same behavior as always against their competitor.
It’s a minor point and you posted that nearly 3 years ago. But in the meantime the Huawei fork happened and the government of Portugal now publishes its applications for Android, iOS and “Huawei devices - HarmonyOS App Gallery”.
So there is a chance to break the duopoly if there is enough traction and if it does not cost them too much effort. They won’t hire a team to port their app to Qt/Silica. But if SFOS can be a compilation target for their framework SDK, we can get native apps (which is the argument in the “Flutter” thread).
huawei was number 1 in the world in the phone market before they had to use a different OS though.
Also made it instantly easier for devs to port their apps to their platform.
I get your point, but you can’t compare that with an OS that has a few thousand users and shrinking for 10 years now.
Once again, we have to define what “secure OS” means for people.
Some users are afraid that a “hacker” will gain access to their device, and perform various malicious actions, like accessing cameras, accessing protected data, etc.
Other people consider Google a greater threat, who actually does exactly the same thing with your consent. The only difference is that Google protects its property (its property → your data) from intruders. You know that Google has thousands and thousands of affiliate companies (and other big-techs, big-pharma, big-anything, Government, etc), with whom they share your data every second. And that is something considered by many a huge data leak!
If Google had an annual subscription, e.g. 100EURO, and by paying that, no data sharing with them would be required and at the same time Google protected your data, I would be all-in. But guess why they don’t do that! Because its your data they are after! Priceless…
You can use GrapheneOS completely without google, that is likely what the majority of its users do. Yes you need to buy the device, and yes there might be a logo on it and during boot. But that is it!
Unless you choose to set up an account and play services etc. In which case you might likely as well stay on stock Android from google.
So no, GrapheneOS does not allow google to spy, that is the entire point of it!
And claiming that google or anyone else only implements security to protect themselves and not the users … come on. It is not black and white, and yes security is important for reputation and business.
Could we discuss the wonderful features of other OSes in their forums? I have simply no idea, what benefit we have from that discussion.
There are a lot of Android Variants each of them for sure wonderful in their own way and totally unique for the people promoting them.
But we are not an Android forum. There are Android forums.
Benefit would be: Discussions about Android variants would not be totally pointless.
And don’t forget about other options, such as UBports, Droidian/Mobian, Purism etc.
To the point now, and regarding the privacy part of SFOS, my opinion is that since Jolla is producing and selling an OS, which once you purchase, an agreement/contract is automatically “signed” between you and Jolla specifically stating that my data stay on the device, is the most convincing solution I can think of. They have a monetizing mechanism (no comment regarding how effective it is), and their intentions are clearly and officially stated.
I also consider Purism a good solution, but again, it is not free (nor cheap)
As CalyxOS initial project manager stated, anyone building on an AOSP can make the actual Android fork extra safe by removing Google left-overs, but noone can tell what is actually going on with the closed source drivers part (where Google is also active).
For me, owning a Google device, with Google designed hardware (closed source), is not considered a safe option for my privacy. I do not believe that Google spends millions of dollars in Programmers salaries, just to keep me safe completely free.
Aren’t they’re smart enough to do both? First offering “free” services, then charging fees once people are tied up. Perhaps saying “pay us, so you don’t see any ads”, while tracking and profiling continues.
Twenty characters
Technically, they cannot do tracking once agreeing not to with an official contract/agreement. Because if you (or any of their rivals) can prove otherwise, they’ll be in trouble with the law.
@WT.Sane you believe that talking about UBports or Droidian/Mobian is not important? Even if you have information that trashes them is a very important talk.
Getting Big Tech to agree to a contract you wrote might be difficult, and I would assume their lawyers know how to stay out of trouble with any contracts they author. E.g. by only talking about ads and not touching on the subject of surveillance
There is no FREE in G world.You can try TrackerControl in strict mode and your phone turns into a browser with camera.Most of the apps cannot work without MANDATORY trackers.There is no protection of personal data there, but rather ensuring who exactly can use it.Breeding ground for data collection - AKA Android !
I totally get people not wanting to buy a Google Pixel, degoogled or not. Knowing that at some stage Google has profited probably doesn’t sit well with some.
I think it’s probably in the best interest of everyone to pay little attention to accounts attempting to antagonistic tactics on social media.
Instead focus positively on projects, organisations and individuals that we want to support.
And who exactly is doing that ‘trolling’? They might be absolute star in being schizo about security, but they lose all points in privacy section for advertising for google play store over fdroid (or is it because their main dev started sh*t with fdroid?). If you think graphene will defend you vs state actor level hacking, good luck and have fun
And again jolla’s ‘invasive services’ from OP, but that’s just Daniel spewing bullshit as always, ask him about those invasive services and you’ll be banned from their forum, blocked on X etc, he spews bs when he has 0 idea about libhybris and was just attacking jolla as another android rom provider, NOOOOO pls don’t attack his bs spewing, he was doxxed etc, yeah whatever dude, if he can dish bs should be prepared to receive facts back
Edit: and inb4 well he forgot about the lie he was spewing here’s another 144 lies, defend yourself, nah sorry, the guy spews bs all the freaking time, so often kiwifarms that document his spergouts didn’t even notice sfos one, he either comes clean and apologizes or there is no point to discuss