Questions about Jolla C2 and SailfishOS

General
#43

I know what it’s like to own a system. I’m a long-time Linux user. But Linux has so much open source software that proprietary alternatives are not needed. And when people here say that SFOS doesn’t need privacy by definition, I understand that they only use the built-in Calculator and Notes. I just realized it now. That’s why we couldn’t understand each other for a long time.

It would be ideal if all companies released open source applications, but now we can only dream about it. Therefore, in my opinion, SFOS’s destiny is either to remain a niche product with Calculator and Notes. Or, by some miracle, to get an expansion of its ecosystem, which is 99% likely to be more proprietary. Only the OS itself will be critically behind in terms of security with this proprietary software.

As you understand, the thesis that SFOS provides security at the proper level is very short-sighted. Maybe now everyone is happy with everything, well, so what. But being a long-time Android user, I have seen the whole history of its development and all the mistakes that the developers made and solved; I see that the SFOS developers are somewhere at the 2010 level in Android and they still have many amazing discoveries ahead. As do the SFOS users.

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#44

Please do not generalize from one group to everyone.

There are a lot of things that need to be improved in SFOS. Most things you mention just don’t have a very high priority compared to other issues.

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#45

Well, excuse me, my interlocutors could have answered me like that right away, instead of saying that the SFOS does not need privacy by definition.

#46

Excuse me, you could have started the thread that you are not interested in privacy, but only in using the apps from big companies you like to use and use snake oil to give you the feeling that you have privacy. If you want to use the products from big tech firms like Google or Meta, just use them, but don’t start an argument about privacy.

If you are only interested to use your favourite android apps in a ‘secure’ way, SailfishOs is not the right OS for you. Period.

I have to go back and make some calculations and take some notes about it.

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#47

Please explain your reasoning and don’t just make opinion statements.

Inventing coping mechanisms while more spying is rolled out every year just makes people think they are “safe” and postpone taking any meaningful action.
No doubt you have heard about the expression “boiling the frog”. You are a frog in search of little ice cubes to hug.

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#48

I’m tired of repeating that I’m interested in what privacy functions the system has. I’ll figure out the applications and their set myself based on the set of these functions. You could answer:

  • There is function A.
  • There is function B.
  • There is no function C.

But you answer:

  • Privacy is an illusion. Reality is an illusion. The world belongs to corporations. Life is a brief moment between the past and the future. Being determines consciousness. And so on.

In general, this is really an empty talk, sorry guys, I have nothing more to tell you on this topic. :slight_smile:

1 Like
#49

That is correct: I see how your thinking has been shaped by Android’s application access rights management system, that you now believe that such a rights system is fundamental for protecting your privacy. Thank you for helping me to comprehend what a smart move Google made by implementing this system.

It is interesting to see you jumping at conclusions again and again. I have about 200 apps installed, about 50 of them being Android apps, and use about 30 apps very often. Though the crucial point is: All of them are Open Source Software which I trust.

Exactly. SailfishOS is a Linux distribution, like any desktop Linux distribution. There is “so much open source software that proprietary alternatives are not needed”, too. But you insist on using proprietary, spying software. Why don’t you do that for your desktop Linux installation?

And please tell me which application access rights management system you are using on your desktop Linux installation? I assume the answer is none, because you do not see any need for that, as you use only Open Source Software.

Why is it so hard for you to transfer this consideration to a mobile Linux distribution called SailfishOS?

P.S.: Ultimately this appears to be another case of an X Y problem.

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#50

It’s kinda sad how people coming from android (and its clones calling themselves OSes) just assume OS spying on you is the norm, not having to opt-out of a dozen spying mechanisms seems fishy, such a radical concept. The only privacy toggle you need here is turning android support off, as who knows how many spying frameworks you installed there yourself (hell you can install full opengapps to feel completely at home with daddy googol). The example of FB/Insta is curious, do you really believe Meta will not connect the dots your two accounts under two different device IDs are you? When they always connect from same IP? Very wishful thinking

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#51

Hi,
first time here and starting to look other option for mobile os. I had similar questions and reading this conversation helped alot. Also thanks to others for participating

Just reminder as i got this hint while posting this:

Welcome to Sailfish OS Forum — thanks for contributing!

Be kind to your fellow community members.

Does your reply improve the conversation?

Constructive criticism is welcome, but criticize ideas, not people.
1 Like
#52

accept you answer as an answer and the topic will be closed

while i think that you are correct that jolla does not do anything special to make the os safe, i find you conclusion funny.

bye

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#53

Just a short observation:

Using native SFOS Apps that appear trustworthy is my approach to limit my data exposure. I trust (and thanks to full root access even can see) that Jolla does not collect data and did not implement those agents that collect data in the OS (other than Google with GMS / play services that have the purpose of aggregating data).

For me, that makes a fundamental difference. Thanks to everyone creating native SFOS apps!

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#54

This would be the same as on all laptops that turn on a (rather irritating) light when the camera (or microphone) is switched on, except the light is connected to a different circuit than the camera, so any hacker can just turn on the camera without turning on the light, and you’ll never know you’re being watched. You can’t fix a hardware problem with software. Either way, phone cameras are a privacy red herring. No one’s interested in intricately exploring the insides of your pockets, and if they can access the camera, your device is already completely compromised anyway and you have more things to worry about than some state or non-state hacker taking creepshots of you checking the weather.

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#55

I like solutions like hardware switches that can interrupt power supply to the camera module or disconnect external USB camera. But into smartphones you can’t add any hardware switch nor tinker anything. It’s tragedy, have to carry a spybug in the handbag.

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#56

OT - just for information: News about where we are in data security:
Please excuse for posting an article in german language.

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#57

“I have to go back and make some calculations and take some notes about it.”

Ha ha, thank you miau for a good laugh!

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#58

Well put @miau; specifically the last point seems to be urgent for @desmond: To configure a lot of permissions for apps he knows to be spying on their users in order to feel safer when using them.

That resonates rather funnily with statements from him (which actually nobody denoted except him) as:


As @desmond introduced himself as a journalist, some of his postings almost made me believe he intends to write an article “How SailfishOS compares against Android” without ever installing and trying SailfishOS (that is how most journalists work these days: use second sources).

P.S.: There were lots of LOLs in his statements (or conundrums, if one takes his lines of argumentation seriously), e.g.:

Etc. etc.

1 Like
#59

Absolutely agree with this and the aspects regarding mobile OS privacy, energy consumption, sustainability etc. are described here:
http://doi.org/10.1002/sd.2995

There’s also a comparison between Google-Android vs. Apple-iOS vs. SFOS, more detailed in the supplements.

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#60

You should have read the topic more carefully. I was constantly being pressed to name specific software (obviously, from the meager set of existing applications), but I was talking about SFOS’s readiness for the arrival of large serious applications (top 10 Google Play, for example), where data leaks are commonplace, unless the OS somehow interferes with them receiving this data.

I’m glad you had fun, but personally I have nothing to do with this. :man_shrugging:

#61

Security or privacy or many other things holds not more then it’s weakest link.

If someone wants to protect from data siphoning apps from GP (I’m unsure if any of top ten is open source, so I assume they leak more than they should as often discovered) on the OS level it would require a lot of effort as there are many ways such app can hide something unwanted in it’s data stream with it’s parent cloud/server. Many of them would require supercomputer to break the possible encryption. Many would require a lot of reverse engineering to discover leeks. On top of that such app can change it’s data structure, encryption or anything else at random times. Which means that one unprotected access after that and they have your data.
That’s all assuming that apps protected in such a way would even work.

There is FireJail but I’m far from expert so I can’t comment how much it can isolate apps. Most big data siphoning firms can afford to fingerprint their users with very little data. So I’m unsure how much such isolation can really help.

I believe that the safest way is not using such apps. Even then many of your online activity can still be tracked on many many other ways. Total online privacy is unfortunately a myth.

I also don’t believe that Andy does what it claims it does regarding either security or privacy. Even rooting it doesn’t give you full access to apps data.

After all most of the big firms have a huge revenue generated from our online data. So why would they voluntary limit their profit???

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#62

At this point your arguing is more and more looking like trolling.

Tell me more about how you demand the same from desktop Linux, and how that is going for you.

I find it rather peaceful to not have any of the common Windows spammyness on my desktop. The same goes for my phone - because why shouldn’t it?

You are basically chanting “usage of data-predatory applications is mandatory” like some sort of mantra.
It is you that are saying “The world belongs to corporations.” in demanding to use each and every of their applications - not us.

3 Likes