As per my original post, is there any value in focusing the discussion, in particular for the New Phone/J2 and all future products, through a PRODUCT category.
Or do members think DEVICE has it covered?
I just thought this was a more relevant question here.
Donât just imply there might be value - make an argument if you truly believe it.
Personally i donât see any problem using the Devices category, plus/minus a sub-section thereof.
Reasons for a product category
Preamble
As many of you are aware I am a new boy. I have tried to stay out of the long term users hair as much as possible. I have noted the annoyance caused by us consumer types, who generally expect everything on a platter⌠Hence all the questions when we fail to find information in the first few minutes.
Though I appreciate this is not a consumer environment, it is one of the main places I had to visit to gain the information I wanted regarding the New phone and SFOS.
The search has not been easy! Time consuming trawling of many categories, following links to documentation, wikis etc. New Posts quickly get pushed further down the list or get buried in there forum category. When you know where the most relevant place to start is its easy, when you donât, this forum like most, can be hard work.
The new phone will bring in many people looking for information as the product is released. To save them and you the users some pain and time, I believe a focused approach to distributing the knowledge and resolving any forthcoming issues under a Product category J2/New Phone? would more likely help to corral newbies like me into that category of the J2. Subcategories of News, Bugs, Fixes, User Experiences etc
If need be, this could be done by initially linking any relevant posts in the forum back to the product category to centralise the information, which I know is double the work (2 posts not one).
Logically, because we are about to launch into the J2, apart from a few announcements, there is little historic posting concerned, so a clear direct posting option is still possible. Therefore, itâs now or neverâŚ. An official Model reference would also help⌠New Phone, 2026 model, J2??
Reasons
Direct focus on a specific Jolla Product with subcategories for its associated news, bugs, updates and fixes etc.
Faster new user access to the product related information.
3. Less frustration for all forum users, whether youâre the searcher or responder to straightforward #where can I find# questions.
Large numbers of new people will be visiting the forum looking for answers once the new phone is out there, I know I will. Lets make it easier for them by not burying the new product in the Device category and plan to take the sting out of the J2 release as much as possible. This is a product in its own right, not just another manufacturers device.
Definitely not (the 3 first anyway). J2 news are headline news to everyone, no need to stuff it in a sub-category either. Already before we would have people reporting whatâs clearly an OS bug over and over again because âthe previous report was for another phoneâ. People that never saw SFOS before will think there is nothing else than the J2 - no need to feed the misconception. If there was a J2 subsection, come summer, things would drown at least as quick there.
That would be the search bar. No sane person browses a category beyond seeing whatâs current or pinned in it. For old threads, categories are more like tags anyway. Discourse (the forum software) already threat them rather similar. So here is my opinion; a J2 tag should be added and probably promoted to sub-category under devices. That should be about the hardware and specific software adaptations only (obviously). There are already borderline too many top-level categories.
Sure; the C2 is somewhere in-between, but for us that have been around a while there are other actual Jolla devices that are âas realâ.
Kinda my point, I discovered the J2 and Sailfish OS 3 weeks ago but paid the deposit because I believe in the concept and want to support it. For me there is no other phone, that is my sole hardware interest.
When you are absolutely new here, you search old and new to establish a broader understanding. Sure, now Iâve been here every day, now I read the latest because Iâve covered a lot of the rest and know my items of interest. But that is the view of long term users.
Iâm not aware of the sales numbers for the C2, a development device, but I imagine that the J2 might be the most sales worthy and largest selling hardware ever wrapped around the SFOS. Therefore might warrant a more focused information delivery approach.
I am not arguing with you, just trying to be constructive regarding my experience to date, looking at it from my new perspective.
The sub category should be the minimum requirement in my view, possibly with a link in getting started to direct new users to it.
Thanks for taking the time to donate your longer term view. 
No itâs not. J1 sold much more than j2 (for now at least) and there are thousands of sfosX users as well.
Other than that, I understand your point but even when you get the device most of the issues you would try to deal with would be (hopefully) sfos related and not device specific.
Following specific threads, announcements and devices section should be more than enough when you get your device. I donât think there would be a flood for j2 specific threads that would need its own category, but I guess mods will create one if the forum needs it.
Without wanting to take sides in the conversation:
This forum was initially designed for developers. Itâs true that it can sometimes be difficult for a regular user not to get lost.
Some users should indeed learn to search before asking a question to get a ready-made answer (thanks to the habit of using AI?).
But the request is valid in my opinion, if I try to put myself in their shoes. Whatâs missing here is a space dedicated to regular users, separate from this forum. This certainly doesnât solve the problem of bashing by people with bad intentions⌠But it could prevent newcomers from asking (sometimes) annoying questions here, allowing them to discuss topics of their choice and find most of the information they need in one well-organized place.
In short, this is just my thought; it seems difficult to implement, but it might be a step in the right direction, in my opinion, of course!
Thatâs blatantly incorrect. A few sections sort of are, but definitely not the forum as such.
People however have the reasonable expectation that fellow users are somewhat technically minded.
Are you literally arguing for more fragmentation?
Thatâs not exactly what I meant, and I donât intend to offend anyone. I understand that several people are somewhat put off by this kind of comment, but I imagine we need to start questioning ourselves a little. (This is just my opinion, please donât take it personally; I include myself in it.)
If we expect all forum users to have a technical approach, then we are indeed far from a general-interest forum, as some users seem to expect⌠It might indeed be necessary for us to make ourselves more accessible to those who donât understand the differences with a âmainstreamâ OS.
Sailfish OS isnât yet at the same stage of development as Android or iOS, we all know that. But a newcomer might not be aware of this, and judging by their comments, they donât always understand why.
Thereâs no intention in my comments to divide the forum. However, it would indeed be time to consider how to channel this influx of new people and direct them to the answers theyâre looking for (to avoid the âharassmentâ some people complain about, on both sides).
This is just my opinion, and I want to emphasize that again. We all have different opinions, and thatâs perfectly fine; it fuels the debate and moves the discussion forward. But letâs be honest: we can all try to be more considerate of those who are understanding. And it seems necessary for Jolla to make a decision on these points so that the information is clearer than it is now.
I imagine that, for Jolla, itâs more advantageous not to have potential customers now (so they come back later when theyâve had time to reflect) than to take all the sales and have these new customers be very disappointed and spread negative word-of-mouth.
No, this is a technical matter - a basic technical understanding, or at least ambition of is a very fair expectation.
This is all well and fine; but coming out swinging and demanding to not have to care one bit is where it goes off the rails. If people could just understand that obvious questions have obviously been answered and not have such main-character syndrome - no you are not the third-ever SFOS user that isnât a developer - the forum would work a lot better. Where i come from this part of our culture, so to me it is extra frustrating, i suppose.
âŚby letting the newbies scream into the void in a corner and never get any actual help for the matters where it is needed? I donât get how that helps.
I have great hope in the upcoming FAQ.
Since I was there literally since the beginning, this simply is not true. Quite the opposite actually, since your Jolla account doubles as a forum account.
I wonder what even made you think that, let alone state it as fact.
FAQ would be a great help, when extensive. But it would need someone dedicated to rapidly update the initial influx of questions on the forum into faq. Jolla sales job possibly? Collating that information would still be easier if all product questions were focused under one category, not spread over the entire forum. IMO
You are clearly new here. 
The problem is that only a minority will be about the actual phone/product.
Having the âeverything elseâ new users encounter be directed at this new section is not a help.
Maybe not developers but certainly OS development. The forum does come across as very techieâŚ.. still sounds like science fiction to me 
but Iâll give it a go!
Also keep in mind that the target audience for Sailfish is, was and will for the foreseeable future be nerds. No one else just wakes up one day and thinks âwell, Iâm sick of this Android phone / iPhone, I want to use a different operating system that you can only find out about by reading dedicated technology focussed websites (aka news for nerds)â. âNerdâ doesnât mean youâre able to program or read code, or even have any interest in doing so (for instance, I donât), but it does mean you have realistic expectations about things that might not (yet) work the way youâre used to, and donât kick in the front door demanding this or that to be changed âor else!â
This is why those very angry⢠newcomers whose first post contains nothing but overly harsh criticism, inflated demands and unrealistic expectations always seem suspect to me. They arenât random people who happened to stumble upon this forum, they deliberately came here after already reading up on what Sailfish is and isnât.
Of course, as always, that doesnât mean thereâs nothing to criticise or improve.
I do agree with @attah that the Devices category seems best suited for discussions about the new phone. Most bugs are Sailfish bugs anyway, not device related bugs - even if it only shows up on one device, itâll probably show up on similar devices in the future as well.
Youâre thinking like a techie again For a Consumer/User, all the problems with my phone are just problems with my phone.
Chum is a big step forward for a more automated install approach, which should alleviate thousands of how do I questions regarding installing apps. Users understand if they have an app problem they need to check out the app section on the forum for bug fixes.
Problems with the OS will come under âa problem with my phoneâ eg the engine is not working on my car, my car is broken down. It may take a while for the techie bent of sailfish to kick in to resolve bugs for some new users. Frustration that their new phone doesnât work may well lead to harassment on the forum. As @nthn saidâŚ
I may be overstating the inability of new phone purchasers here, I donât wish to dumb us down, I initially considered backing out of the deposit due to the forums impact, but my desire is great and Iâm more comfortable now. But still hoping that Jollaâs bug squishing is effective and will at least give me a working phone. Though having spent a few weeks on here, I still bump into old posts that I havenât found with a dedicated search.
Only trying to be constructive here, from a newbie experience.
Not strictly true, the European perspective due to the current political environment is precisely why I was looking to do exactly that and I am probably not alone.
If the new phone is reliable enough and initial feedback is solid, just watch the demand for batch 4,5,6,7,8âŚ. 
Fair enough! But the difficulty is that new users could feel like theyâre talking to a wall because no one (other than perhaps other new users) is discussing their problem in their thread. Although I suppose thatâs already the case when people post duplicate bug reports, or lists of bugs they came across, some of them already reported elsewhere and others new. Itâll be a busy time for the moderators either wayâŚ
I think so too 
. twenty characters
I did type tongue in cheek
I have picked up on the limited resource aspect of Jolla