… instead, please ban these trolls from the forum.
Dear Jolla forum moderators,
if you want your forum to be constructive and helpful, it is of no use to close every thread which is polluted by trolls. This stops every constructive communication in the long run. This is exactly what these trolls are trying to achieve. So in the end you just help them to achieve their goals.
I’m sorry to say so, but if you don’t act on the hard way, this will take no good turn. A good moderator have to make decisions which are sometimes uncomfortable. And yes, temporary and even final bans are without any question by far more helpful than simply closing a thread where someone is looking for advice on a thread which was hijacked by these trolls.
Unfortunately, I have the feeling that the moderators are somehow fearing to make such decisions or that this forum is not moderated at all. If you want to keep forum members, who are constructive and helpful on this platform, you have to do something against trolls. If you just wait and see, you will lose people you want to be here and the amount of trolls will rise instead.
I don’t entirely agree with you. Auto-closing a thread is a Discourse feature. If various users flag a comment, Discourse will automatically close the thread for a while. This cuts out the wrong kind of dynamic and, in my opinion, is a good feature.
There are one or two users here who are constantly off-topic and bring political opinions into threads where they don’t belong. I agree with you; they should be banned once they reach a certain noise level. But don’t forget the best rule: don’t feed the troll.
History has shown that Jolla has previously made the right decision by banning users. Actually, I would prefer if Jolla developers moderated PR on GitHub rather than comments and threads on Discourse.
This is my last comment about this topic.
Fully agree. I am tired of seeing people derailing topics with their constant complaining about Jolla, or their obsession with dragging politics into everything, over and over again, getting important threads locked as a result.
For a while I was actively avoiding this forum because of the non-stop arguing and shouting about politics. The ignore list works, but the comments made by the people on it keep showing up on the front page of the forum (with their icon).
I would strongly support Jolla banning people who cannot stop themselves from going off-topic, or just making a separate thread for silly arguments so people can mute it.
Just for understanding- How many flags does it take to hide a post / close a topic, and how long will it remain closed? What I’ve seen until now seemed incosistent to me.
In the thread in question you must have seen it coming, talking about “alternatives”, “frustration” and “fully working + SFOS”. You had literally everything in there for a fast “Bingo!”. And maybe you flagged as well, eventually leading to the pause. And now you open another thread like a troll would.
I really do not know what is the best solution, but likely real and active moderation as you suggest. But we also have to be realistic, Jolla has bigger fish to catch and should not waste resources on that.
This forum tries to serve too many purposes at once. It is a wild mix of bugtracker, official user-channel, general discussions. The bugtracker should be separate thing! Announcements should be a separate thing! And a discussion place should be community-owned, not vendor.
Github is a very good choice to start over (IMHO), but i also guess there will be the typical complaints (this is MS and i need an account).
The really interesting part is what Jolla actually uses when they call things “tracked” or “#JBxxx” (or whatever it is). Also those are not imported in github.
So cool, now we have at least 3 bugtrackers, totally out of sync.
I have seen a community break down once for not banning essentially just one bad apple. Sure, the community was smaller, and I wasn’t the only one with power, but in hindsight, things would be nicer if they played out different.
Freedom of speech is a great thing, and people need to be allowed to voice their frustrations, but I’m also pretty sick of this and have kept my distance from the forum whenever I can.
A community should likewise have the freedom to freeze and eventually kick out troublemakers.
I should have seen it coming - Yes, you are absolutely right. Anyway the world is not only rose coloured and I was at that moment really pissed - my mistake, I should have formulated more carefully.
And maybe you flagged as well - No for sure not. If there is not really hate speach going on I see no reason for flagging.
And yes I have opened another thread (if you think that’s trollish I can live with it), but not for ranting or push my thread further, but for pointing out a long standing problem in this forum. I’m coming from good old maemo and I still miss the good manners in maemo.org. And I’m a Sailfish user from the very beginning and therefore in that and the forum before since its first day. But I’m aware that times have changed. maemo is dead now for a long time and it seems like etiquette is as well. I’m getting old I fear.
Anyway I know forums where nice and friendly behaviour is still common. These forums are well moderated and it works. Who ever is misbehaving gets a temporary ban. Who is not willing to learn is terminally banned after some temporary bans.
for a newbie, they seem to be more like recommendations than something you should try to follow.
I’m curious: if a recommendation is not something that you should try to follow, what in your mind then is a recommendation? And what do you call something that you feel you should try to follow?
@mive probably means cases where an instruction is not intended to fix something broken, but rather an advice to slightly improve a function(?). Not an absolute necessity in a few words.
There is a few categories of trolls that i can think of.
Here are the usual suspects:
1– Constant repetition that they are disapointed in a specific phone (C2 or Xp 10 V these days) and spamming all threads with same rant about that issues they have (writing once their issue would have been okay, repeating in weekly all across threads is very annoying).
2– Trashing Jolla company for not listening, being useless, failling them all the time, and like group 1, spamming it again and again in all threads.
3– Comparing Sailish features to giants industry players (Android, iOS) and constant rant that Jolla is not playing on the same field (Note here: yeah we knooooow. we just want to enjoy in peace a phone by a smaller company that stays small cause it cant make millions from adds on our devices).
4– Global politics off-topic that constantly drive out of the thread.
5– Ranting about annoyed forum users that start to be frustrated and vocal to “silence” them or other nice words.
Feel free to complete my categories .
Again writing a message of criticism on the forum is fine! But i see some users writing 100 times about their own issue/opinion in multiple threads, thats just… We heard you! But hearing you once or twice was enough. Repeating your same rant weekly across the board is just annoying and spam. I dont even know what is their aim? To scare a new user so that we would have less new Sailfish enthousiasts?
I think that “off topic” is enough for 4. It’s human to be confused and opinionated. If both of that is done respectfully it doesn’t bother me.
What does bother me is that some forum members with obvious psychopathic tendencies doesn’t care about topic but they enjoy to annoy or even attack others. I tolerate them if they bring something technically useful but some are just loud overinflated balloons.
I admit I have all of that sometimes. But I try to self-reflect or you show me the socially acceptable way. And I try to act responsibly. So I apologise and try to act differently.
Hi @Fellfrosch , couse you please add something like “instead, please ban these trolls” to yr title? Otherways its a little misleading from title only…
That would be great to have you as volunteer moderator! At some point trolla shall be removed, we dont want members to wish not to open the forum just because it became a rant zone.
I often flag percieved trools on the motive of “Innapropriate, violation of community guidelines”
And i refer to this part of the guidelines:
Improve the Discussion
Help us make this a great place by always working to improve the discussion in some way, however small. If you are not sure your post adds to the conversation, think over what you want to say and try again later.
The topics discussed here matter to us, and we want you to act as if they matter to you, too. Be respectful of the topics and the people discussing them, even if you disagree with some of what is being said.
One way to improve the discussion is by discovering ones that are already happening. Spend time browsing the topics here before replying or starting your own, and you’ll have a better chance of meeting others who share your interests.
Be Agreeable, Even When You Disagree
You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But remember to criticize ideas, not people . Always provide reasoned counter-arguments that improve the conversation.
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