I have a direct question to Jolla authorities as an everyday user of Sailfish.
Do you have a thought/plan to produce a Jolla Phone which has a multi boot option?
Please excuse me if this is not technically possible but the reason for my question is:
I use Sony Xperia 10 III Sailfish daily mostly for internet, email and text messaging. I also used C2 for 6 months. My problem is I must carry a second phone to get thru the day with necessary android apps. Those apps are “MUST” in Denmark to identify ourselves to the authorities, to pay in shops, to connect to financial sector, for transport, for health service, etc. Those apps refuse to run on Sailfish. I believe this is the same for many people in EU but it’s getting really worst in Denmark. I miss a Sailfish phone which has a double boot option for both Sailfish and Android. As I know Volla Phone in Germany has a such multi boot option for Volla OS and Ubuntu.
As a daily Sailfish user, I will always support Jolla on their impressive Sailfish Journey, and I am ready to pay “any price” for such a Jolla Phone. I don’t know if it is possible to run Android in a locked position in a Jolla Phone securely. But future is pushing us to use those apps. The question is how long we should carry a second mobile, while we are curiously waiting every new Jolla Phones?
I will be really appreciated If anyone from Jolla can reply to my post with a clear answer about technical possibilities of this matter and if this matter suits Jolla’s Sailfish policy.
On one hand, the EU wants to become more independent, on the other hand, it imposes apps on users (iOS + Android). The focus should be on raising awareness that there must be other ways, free paths (websites). Technically, it is feasible, it just needs to be desired!
People underestimate power of having two phones, main with sfos, second with android for android garbagio so much. The idea of having two phones is just so foreign to people and they can’t push themselves past the imaginary barrier of having two phones
I use two sfos phones I’ve been preaching, stop using android on sfos, if you want to use sfos, use sfos and only sfos. If you have some android apps that you absolutely need, use second phone with android for them. Even I have android phone where i have phone app for my mobile carrier (sadly, necessary) that i turn on once per month.
Similarly to @PeymanDK, I have must-have apps that won’t work if not from Google Play Store. Aurora Store under SFOS won’t help. So I must have a real Android. Carrying a second phone for Android is annoying so I only do it when absolutely needed. On normal days I carry my SFOS phone and I am just very very restricted with what I can do. I cannot pay using the phone, I cannot authenticate on the bank, etc.
On special occasions when I need something to work, or when travelling (because anything can happen), then I carry a second phone.
A double boot with a plain Android would be useful to me, I would only carry one phone in all occasions, and be slightly less limited in that I would be able to reboot even though it’s 5 minutes lost, it’s something I can do while I would not be able to do if I didn’t bring the scond phone.
The OPs statement is false, the above “MUST”s can, in Denmark as of today, all be managed without any problem by conventional means, also public transportation next year. At best the statement is simply for convenience.
Could a dual-booting phone still have a locked bootloader? Won’t Android pick up on an unlocked bootloader and deem the device unsecured, and then these secure banking/ID apps refuse to load?
A good way to learn that is to use a Community-Port. In the years i used the XZ2 Compact as daily driver, i was able to find solutions for every Android-App (Mounting NAS with rclone, own Photo-Sync-Backup-Script..etc). Now on Jolla C2 i doesn’t need to activate Android App Support.
I would like to respectfully disagree with your arguments in this thread. While I understand you would have your own requirements and wish to do the things your way, I don’t understand why you would dismiss my requirements.
I do exactly as you suggest. The last time I used my Android device was to approve the purchase of the Jolla Phone, and then to approve Christmas money for my nephew. That could be all for this month.
We are not all in a rich company or country. I was given a laptop after 10 years of employment, and I was strongly suggested to install MS Teams on my private phone (which I never did). I know of about 5 people with a work phone at my 500+ people workplace and the one among them who is my friend told me he/she purchased a second-hand phone himself/herself to insert the work-provided SIM card. Because the work only provided a cheap dumbphone while they also wanted to check work email on the work phone. They also did not want to use their private phone for business for other reasons.
No you are not. I don’t intend to use the payment app as a daily option, but as a fallback for the case the card is lost or damaged (which already happened to me).
No it is not always. The first smartphone I ever owned was the XA2 I purchased for the very purpose of flashing it with SFOS.
Some months after I started using a smartphone (the XA2 with SFOS), my bank introduced the need of using their app. I had never really used Android and did not have the Jolla AAS licence. I then purchased the cheapest Android tablet I could find, which was too low in Android API and did not work for the bank. (Some years later I discarded it nearly unused into the electronics trash.) I then purchased a slightly better tablet second-hand from a big brand. It also did not work as it lacked biometrics (how would I have known, I don’t use Android) (I currently use it as the remote control for the catfood machine). I then gave up wasting money this way and purchased a third, new, top-of-the-line Android tablet from a big brand. It worked for the bank.
Some time later, my government introduced their app, with the added requirement that the device needed to be a phone for being allowed to install it (despite the call function not being used in the government app). I then resold my third tablet and purchased a fourth, new, top-of-the-line Android tablet from a big brand with 4G/5G connectivity, and a cheap but nonetheless more-than-zero monthly SIM subscription so I can use it conveniently whenever needed. It worked for the government. I use it twice a month or so.
In the meantime, the national bank association introduced the requirement that the national payment app must to be on an actual phone, while previously a wifi tablet would work. The phone number needs to be the same as associated with my bank account. I therefore cannot use the payment app with the fourth, new, top-of-the-line Android tablet from a big brand with the monthly SIM subscription, since it is not the same phone number that I declared at my bank as my phone contact.
This “two phones” solution always ends up a waste of my money, my time, and on top of that a waste of earth resources. I frontally disagree with the statement that I need to buy more electronic crap to solve software issues. I own a very capable mobile phone (currently a 10iii) that should be able to perform both tasks; I will hopefully soon own a Jolla phone which I intend to keep for long and use for everything I need.
As I only need an Android device at most once a week, and I intend to do everything else only with native SFOS apps, a dual boot would be a good compromise for my need, and my best commitment to SFOS, as it obliges me to use SFOS native apps for the largest fraction of the time, and keep the Android mode on the fringe as a fallback or for that once-a-month occasion.
You’re trying to play victim while its all your own doing. I’ll break down your “response”
First you say you don’t have money, then you state you have no issue wasting money on tablets and even buying brand new tablet so that negates it.
It was clearly stated you need android phone, but you decided to buy tablet. I guess you also buy ham when mom wanted you to buy cheese for some reason.
Then you proceeded to buy manufactured chinese ewaste. Now you’ll say “i didn’t know!” well who stopped you from doing research? Who was it? Why would you go buy random crap you have no idea about without doing research? 5 seconds in search engine would tell you 10x not to buy offbrand chinesium tablets
Then you proceeded to buy tablet AGAIN when phones were only mentioned at that point
You even had answer from your friend and you ignored that. You decided to buy tablet anyway. And then when you realised you need 3G/4G, which screams “JUST GET A PHONE” no, you decided to buy tablet again, this time brand new, because throwing money for brand new stuff is no issue to you.
In poland there’s saying: “stupidity costs”. It’s all your fault. You could do research, find out whats good, what do you need, if you even need it, which @josaccc says you don’t. You try to play victim but it’s only result of your own incompetence. You have nobody to blame but yourself
I didn’t say I don’t have money, I said I am not in a rich company or country. You were saying that having a work phone is what normal people do. This isn’t true. Only rich companies give work phones to employees. People having two private phones isn’t normal. I don’t see anyone using two phones.
No I didn’t state I needed a phone. I needed an Android device, on which I installed the bank application which originally worked on a Wi-Fi tablet, only years later was limited to a phone. At which point I purchased again the same brand, just a model with 4G, because it had already worked and I don’t have interest in spending my time researching Android tablets or phones.
According to you I should have searched, I should have been doing research… It’s easy to say a 5 second search would give the answer, when you already know the answer. I didn’t know I had to look for an answer. Let’s say I’m stupid, I’m fine with that. What does it change? Every “second phone” situation is e-waste. E-waste is exactly what we want to eliminate. Myself and other thousands of SFOS users purchasing second phones that are polluting to manufacture isn’t a satisfying situation.
No I didn’t. My friends got a second phone as to not insert the work-provided SIM into a private phone, for what I called “other reasons”. This was related to the part where I discuss that we don’t get gifted phones at work.
No, their conversation is related to their particular country, not mine.
Of course everything is the result of my incompetence. I haven’t stated to be particularly intelligent. Why would this matter anyway?
Why do you make a point I have nobody to blame? I also haven’t tried to blame anyone, I am argumenting on facts: having a second phone is a waste of my time (the researching part about Android which I don’t enjoy) and resources (my money – I haven’t claimed to be poor), and the resources of Earth manufacturing electronics. The last part being official policy in the developed world that we should try to reduce.
I said neither of those things. I don’t have work phone, but if people require android apps for work, usually they have work phone
Never have i mentioned companies giving phones. people just buy them.
it very much so is
“i don’t see something in my tiny pool of test samples so it must apply to everyone on the world”
not how it works
For example, who in their right mind would go buying random car without doing research? I even research what blender is good, what monitor is good, what watch is good, what water bottle is good.
Quite opposite. If you buy second hand phone form someone you’re literally saving it from being e-waste
which shows you they got second phones and that on their phones everything required works. So yes, you did have answer
Because you tried to blame having to buy 3 different devices on anything but you.
you quite did
again, it’s opposite. Saving phone from landfill is oposite of wasting resources.
Your argumentation that people have two privates phones is not supported by citations; also it is irrelevant for the topic.
“i don’t see something in my tiny pool of test samples so it must apply to everyone on the world”
You also seem to generalize from your own tiny part of the world.
«For example, who in their right mind would go buying random car without doing research?»
I don’t know, I don’t own a car, this isn’t a car forum, and there are significant differences between the use cases and technical characteristics of a car and a phone.
«which shows you they got second phones and that on their phones everything required works. So yes, you did have answer»
No this was not a situation of a technical requirement, it was a situation of work-private separation. People don’t get a second phone just because one application doesn’t work.
«If you buy second hand phone form someone you’re literally saving it from being e-waste / RRR - REDUCE REUSE RECYCLE / I’m talking about second one »
These three items are read in order. The most important is to reduce – not need a second phone. When re-using a second-hand phone, I am still removing a phone from the market that (1) could have been useful to someone else for their main phone, and that (2) contributed to pushing down the prices for people in need of an inexpensive second-hand phone.
The initial point is that a dual boot supports my use case. Do you have any contribution to the technical discussion regarding this point? Insulting me calling me incompetent, using the word “stupidity” related to me, isn’t the sort of answers I was expecting on this forum.
I’ve been preaching, stop using android on sfos, if you want to use sfos, use sfos and only sfos. If you have some android apps that you absolutely need, use second phone with android for them. Even I have android phone where i have phone app for my mobile carrier (sadly, necessary) that i turn on once per month.