You hear more and more people complaining about software lately while they paid nothing, or 50€ for a license, or even maybe 1-2 hundred something euros for the X10 iii ( I bought 2, each for 120€ for example ).
I can’t imagine how these people would pay let’s say 1000€ for a jolla phone or even something from another company but with flagship specs…
1 Like
Especially with bugy os. I wouldn’t. I never ever thought about buying jolla phone when my n900 was getting “hard to use” in progresing world of phone specs. I don’t know how were previous versions of sailfish, right now let’s just say it’s bugy. So platform costing 1000E with no guarantee that os will be at least android-like functionality-wise is no deal for me.
Exactly my point, maybe I didn’t phrase it correctly.
Fix your software first then there’s a point to go for more capable hardware to unlock new features and opportunities for your software.
But until then, what’s the point?
1 Like
What is the actual amount that in your opinion gives the user the right to complain about the product he bought and encounters some issues with?
The amount would be anything above 0 in this case.
But now that I read my message I understand why it was perceived like this.
What I wanted to say is that we are dealing with a free software and a low cost license, meaning very low expectations considering the investment and yet SFOs cannot deliver in some cases even with that in mind.
So how people would actually invest 1000€ with the current situation?
1 Like
The question is who would actually need a 1000€ device for running SFOS. When it comes to performance, it runs so well on the 10 III that I guess that 90% of users actually wouldn’t need anything faster than that in the current time frame. So what would a much more expensive device (e.g. the 5 IV or the 1 IV) provide? Actually almost nothing, because the features that make them so expensive (like e.g. the cameras) wouldn’t work (any better than on the 10 III) anyway, as long as Jolla is unable to crack the Camera2 API and other things like that. So what’s really needed is that the most troublesome issues are ironed out and that the EXISTING hardware features are fully supported and polished, e.g. the cameras or VoWiFi support. On 300€ devices, much more achievable.
If they fixed all the issues (e.g. the power consumption) and provided support for all the features of my 10 III, I wouldn’t see any reasons to change it in the next 3-4 years. Instead of having to buy a new phone (and licence), in such case I would happily pay Jolla some licence extension fee. A good model would be e.g. the first two years in the initial licence price, but after two years a renewal fee for getting future updates. Or maybe even for making the Android support still work (or else it’d expire after the initial 2 years). There are lots of possibilities. But that only on a device on which all the nasty problems (like the echo or the power drain) are really ironed out, and all of its features (cameras, VoWiFi that I really need living where 4G coverage inside buildings is cr*ppy as hell, etc.) are fully supported. Not on a device that after one year still has some major issues to be fixed and numerous important things not available at all, and where in such a (not overly positive) situation there are already talks from some people who would expect new models to be supported, which would share exactly the same scenario - poor availability, a bunch of new issues (on top of some of the existing ones) including some newly introduced by Sony in their AOSP binaries, half of features again not supported or ever-beta (as it’ll take to reverse engineer from scratch their different modem, cameras, etc), and so on.
Anyway, the most important thing is device availability. And it won’t ever get any better unless Jolla takes the risk and simply PURCHASE some quantity of units as soon as they decide that it is their next device to be supported, while it is still available. Even if it takes taking a loan or something. They know how many licences they sold for the 10 III or previously for the 10 II, so I’m sure they’re able to correctly estimate the right quantities. Then they could sell those phones in their shop with some (reasonable) profit, that both old devoted users (in order to support the company) and newbies (for not having to hunt for the phone and then flash the OS themselves, which often gives such people a lot of problems) would happily pay and at the end of the day could even give Jolla some several hundred thousand € of profit.
I can’t see any other way to protect the availability of devices and - what’s even more important - attract to Jolla new people who now are simply afraid of all the trouble of buying the phone (often second hand due to new devices no longer being achievable) themselves, then flashing it themselves (about which they read here and there that it is not a trivial thing to do), etc. Being able to normally buy a ready to use device from the OS vendor’s own store would surely attract much more people to this OS and make it seen as more of an “end user” / “ready to use” / “mainstream” product rather than a mysterious niche thing for die-hard Linux geeks only.
Lastly, there’s the evergreen problem of Jolla stubbornly not wanting to provide some kind of (usable and convenient) support for paid applications. Come on, it’s been 11 years already. Meet whoever owns Qt now, talk with them, buy the commercial Qt licence or whatever it takes, and give developers an incentive to develop for this platform. It will really make a difference, you’ll see.
6 Likes
We are saying the same thing.
But to answer your first question, you would want a flagship device when you have every basic function and feature sorted out.
Performance is good in SFOs UI for example but cannot be compared with a flagship iOS/android device in use. Dropped frames and delays while using or while opening most 3rd party apps is something that will happen frequently if you use the device as a modern smartphone.
For example I remember Marc saying how the UI was build with multitasking in mind and I guarantee you that you can multitask insanely faster with basically anything else on the market.
And of course you would want a great display, camera, speakers, battery life, a proper aspect ratio so that you can type easily etc.
People have different preferences and that’s why we have different devices.
My point is that even if jolla decided to support flagships now, there wouldn’t be any difference since the OS still has basic functionality issues.
And personally I am fine with that. I got the device to enjoy the journey with the OS, I knew exactly what to expect and I’m happy with my purchase.
1 Like
This is because software needs optimization and not 1000€ hardware. Reinstall the stock Sony Android on your SFOS phone and measure the frame rates, they’ll surely be better. So it is not the faster and more expensive hardware that’s needed. It may be caused (and probably is) by shitty Sony AOSP drivers, i.e. not necessarily Jolla’s fault, but if so then it’d be so on the 1000€ model as well, eating its (pricey) performance boost, too…
Well, of the features you listed the 10 III actually provides most on a quite decent level, I mean hardware wise. But they are not taken advantage of in SFOS. Only one camera working and utilizing the ancient camera API that gives up the ghost in low light, battery life (exceptionally good on Sony stock Android) plagued with high drain on SFOS (quite possibly because of cr*ppy AOSP layer), good display but with tint/banding, in-call audio badly affected with echo, fingerprint sensor that ruins my blood pressure, etc. None of which a more expensive hardware would solve if software remained the same. You might pay 1000€ for a phone with even 5 cameras, but so what if still only one would work based on the same ancient API. About which - apparently - we fully agree.
Anyway, as this thread’s title is whether there is a FUTURE for this OS, what I wrote above is what I think it takes for it to have a (better) future. It wasn’t to argue with your points but only to express my opinion.
1 Like
I’d be surprised if Jolla wasn’t financially secure for at least a couple more years. Ownership doesn’t directly affect profitability.
The platform is easily the best there is. Sailfish will probably outlast Android (Google are likely to move to a proprietary OS at some point).
The only real risk I think is worsening support for newer phones, including App Support. But Jolla have always kept that up and pushing App Support in eg cars is one of their marketing angles at the moment.
Even if the next phone is the last that is officially supported, that would give us ~5 years. It would be nice if App Support was still available somehow beyond that and we could do our own ports.
And this is basically the worst case scenario.
At some point (6 months ago?), HereWeGo stopped working in approximately the same way. It crashes itself and breaks App Support (pending software restart). This one might be an actual bug in App Support.
I still use my XA2 as a daily driver. Whilst the nekros-boosted GPS struggles in Montpellier, France (6 storey signal-blocking buildings, ‘roads’ ~3m wide), the phone largely works great and thankfully is still supported by Jolla.
Other problems:
On the same phone, I have none of these problems. Your installation is probably corrupted. Back up what you can and do a fresh installation.
I don’t use CardDAV and there’s a way to ‘natively’ access Android settings, I forgot how. [Edit: two methods added below, thanks]
Try:
apkd-launcher com.android.settings
1 Like
Or: Settings->Android Support and tap 3 times on version number
4 Likes
I bought my Xperia X, XA2 and 10 III all new from normal retailers and could iirc pick them all up at some local outlet. Maybe the conditions for acquiring vintage hardware differ here in Berlin. I did not purchase each phone before SF support was official.
Xperia X 2017, October 10th
Xperia XA2 2019, September 10th - 21rst
Xperia 10 III, 2022, August 1rst
I purchased my first XA2 in spring 2019, a friend ordered it for me, and my current Xperia 10 I purchased in spring 2020 at a cellphone store in Vienna. Both phones were available at the time where the SFOS port came out.
1 Like
Isnt that after all just a positivelly labeled troll thread ?
4 Likes
I bought 2 used ones from Kleinanzeigen for 120 each. Both in pristine condition and the second with more than a full year warranty left (but not anymore, lol).
For me there’s no reason to hunt for something new when the device is already old and im also going to void any warranty left the moment i unlock the boot loader.
I don’t think so. It’s chatting.
2 Likes
In grisoghetto is an own section for out off topic / chatting threads 
its called boneyard
and it contains even a movie review thread
maybe its needed here too
1 Like
Concerning my posts? Sure. 
1 Like
As recommanded by @Seven.of.nine and @ric9k I reflashed my phone. It freed alot of internal storage. I haven´t yet installed all apps, but I think it freed approximetly 3 GB.
I used the following instructions: Installing Sailfish X on XA2 using Windows - Jolla
Important: I had to connect my phone via my 20 years old USB2 hub. The USB 3 ports make problems.
I made a SFOS backup befor flashing. CardDAV worked out of the box after loading backup. I just had to fill in my password again. Email server settings where somehow wrong, so email wasn´t working. But this was easy to fix. All other accounts worked after reentering passwords.
SMS, calling and email is working fine for now. But sure I have to test it for some time… The same for problems with contacts and battery.
Fingerprint sensor is working again!!
So for sure it is (alot of) time to backup everything. Especially the android apps. Also the reflashing process it self takes some time. But now SFOS is faster and works better.
So if others have similar problems, than try a reflash!
Great benefit of reflash is also, that I got newer version off the file browser and audio recorder.
Just it was not so easy to get my android apps back becaus of a problem of Aurora Store:
https://www.reddit.com/r/degoogle/comments/12tn6oe/cant_search_for_apps_on_aurora_store/
So I used Aptoide.
6 Likes
Congrats!
And always save your .apk files on computer, so you don’t have to search everything new after some crash.
Aurora Store currently has a problem with search function, this was discussed… and I was also affected from this. This is not from your SFOS.