Funny, because I do remember a moderator asking to point out any posts that were fixed and not against the rules but still flagged. I did not see an adequate reply. I did see someone pointing at other post that were “offtopic”, which to me seems not a valid argument.
Now it seems the topic gets changed that there is no moderation (which is untrue). Most often such a topic change happens because people have run out of arguments.
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I didn’t say there was no moderation. What I said was:
which is quite different. On occasions I have seen Jolla folk intervene, but it is not consistent, they don’t always follow their own rules, and there is quite a lot of posts and/or flagging that might well fall into the need for moderation, but escape untouched. Please see my previous posts.
Finally, nobody was trying to change the subject of the thread. Again, if you read my post above you will see that I was simply making the argument that if, on any forum, such moderation as described above does not take place, or only takes place infrequently, or randomly, or inconsistently then ‘community flaggers’ are left to their own devices and can flag posts according to their own personal wishes in a completely unchallenged and totally anonymous way. Those posts can then subsequently be hidden and finally removed permanently from view - which of course then brings us back to the censorship aspect.
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So, still talking about big abstract issues, while failing to point out real issues. Apparently there are no forum posts that fall within the rules but are still flagged, so I see no problem anymore. Everybody can be happy 
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Well, at least I am talking about the issues rather than trying to score personal points against another forum member (contrary to Jolla’s guidelines) - but, hey, if it floats your boat you go ahead 
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Well, freedom of expression or something
You do know that this is all turning into a lot of nonsense, right?
Some points might be valid and I trust they will be picked up by the people at Jolla. But come on, all this hatred and vitriol? That is the level at Facebook and Twitter.
In the meantime I am enjoying a Chimay Blue here 
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I do not intend to annoy you but I am used to a more civil atmosphere in discussions. Maybe this forum is becoming a place for the more robust ones.
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Cultural differences in habits and perception can play a role. In The Netherlands e.g. people are very direct and often rude, at least it is perceived as such by others. While in the UK people hold back on their true opinions, what can be perceived as hypocrisy by others. Rude behaviour seems to be made ‘easier’ online, but research found that people who are rude online, often are also rude in reality.
I think most of us agree with the rule that rudeness and ad hominems, also the cynical ad hominems, are not tolerated.
A very different question is the anonymous flagging, but I have made my point about that already.
Another question: are contributors to this forum allowed to be critical on Sailfish? When are the lines crossed?
Thirdly: off topics. Please don’t make it too formal. We are not robots.
Hearts are visible, so flags should also be.
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Sure, but in some recent discussions some lines were crossed it seems. Calling a release of Sailfish rubbish and shit was flagged to invisible. When people were claiming that is was censoring and were making comparisons with dicatorship and communism, those posts were flagged as well. I think this kind of criticism is highly unrespectful and unreasonable and I see no issue with flagging that kind of rubbish and shit If people want to post that kind of “criticism”, the expected response will be flagging.
I would think criticism is about the content. When you just want to use swear words you can expect a pushback, which is very different from censoring of flagging contentful posts.
It does seem however that reasonable criticism is not very much possible currently, it gets ugly very fast. I do hope people become more reasonable again soon. In my opinion, it should be and it is possible to say almost anything, as long as it is brought somewhat reasonable.
(I am Dutch by the way, but not the rude kind).
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i am an active member since 2016 and untill this year there was no need for such threads.
people just knew how to behave and if somebody overacted once, so be it.
in together.jolla everybody was more polite.
and rather the answers were rude or sarcastic then the questions
nowadays questions are more rude and threads like this: sorry but we are all adults, do we need to spent literally hours to discuss how to behave online ?
we did not need flaggin in toghter.jolla.com
nor sure why we need it now.
guess because that feature comes with the new forum.
i think karma worked better
in any case, if somebody gets flagged he should be told why.
but to call that whole thing censorship … sounds a bit like first world overreacting to me
i am in an other forum (cars) where a guy was kicked out after 10 years and 15000 posts, he was like the one with most posts, still they kicked him out for life, cause he turned berserk in one thread
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I wonder if people would have been as up in arms if the posts were hidden from 10 downvotes, instead of flagging. Most likely not. Many of the examples here sure would have accumulated some. So once again i’m struggling to muster sympathy since the effect would have been the same.
I agree, probably not. But then you could see the strength of feeling against a downvoted post by the number of downvotes, and presumably the usernames of the people who had downvoted the post as well (just as you can with likes on this forum). So it would at least be transparent and honest. And if the same user(s) always downvoted a particular user’s posts for no reason, then that abuse too would be there for all to see. You get none of that with this flagging system.
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You have found a workable and much better solution!
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So: in posts by members criticism is allowed, but rudeness (scolding, cursing, ad hominems, etc.) is not tolerated. In order to keep these rules moderation is needed. The second reason for moderation is ‘off topic’. This in order to prevent that the posts grow into a tittle tattle conversation. Yet, one shouldn’t be too formal and too strict. Try to keep it human.
Moderators could also contribute to a nicer forum by trying to understand why people are angry, disappointed or upset. It does not help saying “I don’t have this problem” and simply flagging away does not do much good either.
I agree with Pawel that moderators should be given a reason for being flagged.
This is my last opinion.
Wish you a nice holiday, merry Xmas and a better new year.
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I guess it’s a good time to revive this thread.
Case in point: 13 posts gone missing thanks to community jannies: [SOLVED] The new Jolla's 4.99eur/month Subscription model is too expensive for my budget - #144 by Vince
What about people flagging ideas they don’t agree with? You might cheer on people flagging pro-putin posts in auroraOS thread, but the only result from that is information going missing, auroraOS thread had a ton of posts removed just because the rest of the forum doesn’t agree EU is evil. Are you going to cheer on people flagging abortion-clinic app? (this is specifically crafted as both EU and russia love abortion on demand, so we can discuss something outside of ukraine where russians will agree with euros)
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no need lol, it’s already happening, people are so polite to ‘somewhat related but incomprehensible posts’ they are afraid to flag obvious chatbots see Xperia VI devices moving from 21:9 aspect ratio screens to 19.5:9 - #22 by rgp, a chatgpt type bot got its post removed, its clearly russian operation kek (and it got likes too, the brave will save us)
edit: and just to spell it out, the bot answer took this:
PeegeeTips:
Re: changing from 21:9
Apparently not the 10vi !!!
Also no update to USB3 and Wifi6:
and provided some nonanswer in the type: while it’s a real shame sfos will not support usb3 and wifi6…
but it didn’t contain the line ‘as a large language model’ so people not only liked it but replied to it (therefore: my message is missing) kek
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“Take revenge on this forum” Truly a reddit moment
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guy posts a friendly request to get a spyapp built, not without our censor horde lol Here's the code for the European Digital Identity - #113
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@vige @rainemak guys can we get your input, it seems a how to avoid the mass flaggers is now a daily topic that needs a faq, can you maybe tweak some discourse values? or properly address the topic if there are no values to tweak?
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@throwaway69, just to confront you with the reality here at FSO: 
… is not a “sailor” (i.e. employee of Jollyboys): IIRC he left the company when Jolla was transformed into Jollyboys.
… it seems a how to avoid the mass flaggers is now a daily topic that needs a faq
There are FAQs for this from Jolla’s perspective: They are mentioned in this thread and copy the content of Discourse Inc.'s discourse FAQ, which IIRC resides in Discourse Inc.'s discourse instance.
can you maybe tweak some discourse values?
AFAIK sailors never did that, will not do that and likely cannot do that, because this discourse instance is a SaaS run by Discourse Inc. with its default configuration and Jolla likely choose to rent this forum software as SaaS to have no administration efforts at all; consequently I expect no sailor to have acquired the knowledge for that, actually that became quite clear in some of their replies in this thread.
At least this ensures, that this discourse instance behaves exactly as Discourse Inc.'s discourse instance: The details are denoted there.
or properly address the topic
As pointed out in this thread, discourse was likely chosen for FSO, because Discourse Inc. promises discourse to cause no moderation efforts at all, because “the community will moderate itself” by exactly the flagging and vanishing messages mechanisms discussed here. The first couple of years Jolla also strictly adhered to the no moderation premise, as you can read in this thread. I am very glad that this changed about a year ago, and I am also glad that the moderation is … well: moderate. But if you look more closely you might discover that the active moderators are all ex-sailors AFAICS.
TL;DR
Do not expect an answer, but the implicit answer (provided by actions, the lack of them, or the lack of answers which really answer something) is very likely a “No” to all your points.
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