Direction for the future of SFOS?

You mean those who just gave up and move on without complaining?

SFOS is a long way from being good. It’s just about getting by in terms of functionality and breaks a lot in annoying ways. I’ve been using SFOS since 2019, but my patience is wearing thin. And that was even before the price hike and change to what boils down to a SaaS model.

Please keep your hubris to yourself.

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You’re obviously uninformed or possibly misinformed (or maybe you just wanted to insult me), but other than that, I’ve been an SFOS user since its inception (2014) and my phones have always worked satisfactorily.
Of course, every new piece of hardware has required a certain break-in period, short or long, but at the end of the day, it’s always resulted in a working everyday-phone.
In fact, I think most problems are user-created, or due to misplaced expectations.

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My three phones and my wife’s one work fine with only tiny problems but naturally the well known limitations. In general we’re both happy with it. Especially me because it’s possible to tweak the system and I like to do so.

edit: all phones are Xperia 10 from y 2020, but some of them needed service (new battery, new display).

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Uninformed or misinformed about what, exactly? the fact that you are happy with what I can only describe as a piss poor experience doesn’t mean everyone else is guaranteed to be equally satisfied.

Projecting the problems of the platform onto the users is just pure gaslighting and is unacceptable.

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Please don’t feed the trolls! bild

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Was a joke

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That would be fine, and standard phones same way as standard PC’s.

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I cannot give you first hand advice here since my mother died years before SFOS came out and she very rarely calls nowadays.

This forum is full of complaints because people see no reason to tell us about things that simply work. And that is alright for me as long as there is an actual problem and the will to solve it. If the post is just about complaining than there might be other reasons why your mother’s calls sometimes don’t come through.

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Oooh, that’s a can of worms you do not want to open.

The development of the Librem 5 is a very good example why “It’s ready when it’s ready” is always the best answer, and why you need people with technical skills to lead development.

Watching that slow plane crash probably was, in retrospect, one reason why I chose SFOS in the end.

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I’m glad this thread has settled more into actual brainstorming; the first half really triggered me.

It’s like someone going into a cornerstore and telling them how to run their business because they don’t stock their favorite product.

FWIW, somebody already linked this but I’ll post the relevant bit here because there’s been a lot of misinformation in this thread:

Q: Are you considering keeping one-time-fee (perpetual) Sailfish license available?
A: Yes, we are and also based on the feedback it looks that we keep the option for a Sailfish OS (perpetual) license with fixed fee available for all supported device models. This will be offered next to the subscription model.

Q: I get the point you want to charge a subscription but would rather pay it yearly, will that be possible?
A: Yes, it will be.

Q: Will Sailfish OS and AppSupport continue working if I end my subscription?
A: Yes, we won’t be blocking the use. However, you would not receive releases, upgrades and new features.

Q: Will the Free Trial version continue? Also for newer device models?
A: Yes, we’re committed to continue offering the Free Trial license. Next additions to the Free Trial versions will be for Sony Xperia 10 IV and 10 V.

Q: What’s the plan with Sony Xperia XA2, 10, 10 II and 10 III?
A: They continue working as long as it’s technically feasible to support them. Hopefully we support them still years, like we’re used to, but eventually also those will deserve a retirement plan.

Q: Does this affect someone who already has a phone and a license? Do I need to pay subscription in the new Jolla Community Phone/C2?
A: The subscription model does not affect to one-time-fee (perpetual) licenses. The Jolla Community Phone comes with 12 months subscription included, after (and during) which you can freely choose whether to continue with the subscription model or pay a one-time-fee (perpetual) license.

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Kudos! Very good post. :+1:

There are promises and then there is reality. This FAQ reads like a list of broken promises, as reality is very different than what was promised. Xperia development is stalled to the level where it is not really a viable option any longer and the perpetual license has not been offered for the future Sony phones. Instead, the Sony phones are referred to as ‘legacy’, implying that options for Sony phones are not going to be around in the future.

What do you mean with “legacy”? If it`s this:

They continue working as long as it’s technically feasible to support them. Hopefully we support them still years, like we’re used to, but eventually also those will deserve a retirement plan.

then you might be missinterperting this. It only talks about the Devices in the old licensing (“legacy” Devices). That does not imply that we will not see any new Xperia 10 devices also offically Supported.

The answer if newer Versions of the Xperai 10 series will be available can only be answerd by Jolla or until a new device will be added (wich is probablly still at least a Year away), we will have to wait.

And where were any of the promises broken? Jolla can`t do anything (at least realisticaly) then to wait until Sony puts out working blobs for the Xperia 10 V and 10 IV. The one time license will also be available (as stated above in the Q&A), but they will most likly only give us more infos about it when the Xperia 10 V & 10 IV have all/importent features working or they provide App Support anyways.

I mean legacy like this:

The Xperia 10 V has been in the ODP since October 30, 2023, almost 1½ years now.

then you might be missinterperting this. It only talks about the Devices in the old licensing (“legacy” Devices). That does not imply that we will not see any new Xperia 10 devices also offically Supported.

IRT the FAQ: Those are only promises, but no there are real meaningful results. So, with nothing to show for, the FAQ is just a bunch of empty words right now. The time to deliver has come and is almost gone. Credibility is flying out of the window.

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Yeaa… let it fly, you. Others is just closing that window. :wink:

Man the things people get worked up about over 25 EUR. I’d barely be able to get a dinner for my wife and I at a restaurant here for that price. It’s not even a limited-time license either, it’s perpetual. That’s insane.

You’re acting like they’re not working on when just in [Release notes] Tampella 5.0.0.55 they discussed support for various Sony devices.

I’m sure your 25 EUR (which if they’re paid anything reasonable wouldn’t even cover an hour of work, by the way) helps but let’s not pretend they can dedicate all the time in the world to it. They still have to function like a normal business and prioritize.

Maybe chill out a bit, try to put things into perspective, and realize not everything operates at timescales that are most advantageous to everyone?

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The problem for user/client isn’t the 25, 50 or whatever Euro, the problem is that we can’t proceed but stuck.

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Here’s some perspective for you:

My Sony Xperia 10 III is failing and is in urgent need of replacement. The battery is failing and the USB port is more or less a goner. And to be clear, I would love to be able to switch to a 10 V, but it has to work for me.

I need AppSupport and other features that are in the X-suite. There is no license available for the V, thus no replacement is possible. Not having the X-suite is a no-starter and will mean the end of the line for SFOS for me. It’s that simple.

The C2 is also a non-starter. it’s just not a practical phone for me. Too large, too much of an unknown quantity.

As for the larger picture, @Seven.of.nine is right, the features are missing. I came onboard in 2019 with some hope for eventually getting a phone which could meet my needs. SFOS has not really been taken to that level. A lot of features which one can consider normal for a phone are missing or borked. The Bluetooth implementation is extremely limited, implementing only a minute set of profiles. GPS is often not working correctly. Memory management is borked so much that if you run out of memory, which is not an infrequent occurrence, the phone will just start acting unpredictably and have all sorts of crashes. I was always hopeful that this would improve over time. But if I can’t rely on them to make the necessary changes, then why continue to hold out?

And as long as perpetual licenses are still not implented, we’re effectively looking at a SaaS solution until otherwise noted. Not acceptable for a device as important as my communications centre, and it never will be.

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Precisely. I paid €49 for my first phone and was pleasantly surprised.

Yet some people get worked up about all sorts of shit and blame a tiny company for… what, exactly? Being a tiny company?

As they say: No good deed goes unpunished.

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I think the only way for SFOS to move forward at reasonably fast speed is to make all of the components of SFOS open-source and well documented.

I’ve been using SFOS for years, until v4 came out I used it as daily driver on my XA2 until if fell apart but the feature (compatibility) gap between android and SFOS has grown so much that it becomes less usable as daily driver and it’s more like a toy, at least in my case. I’m running a company so all the basics must be rock solid (wifi, 4g, calling, texts, browser, email), and that is simply not the case.

Nevertheless, I have order X10 II recently, and will buy yet another licence and see what I can do to help.

So I’ll try to steer this discussion in more positive direction and point to some low hanging fruit that I think will help out tremendously:

  • make all stock apps open-source so people can jump in and add features or fix bugs, instead of writing replacement apps (example: stock camera vs advanced camera)
  • start writing some basic getting started documentation for core OS development so new developers can setup dev environment quickly and start contributing

For those that missed it Camera2 API development is a good read, I have wrote about these issues before and it is a good example of dispersed knowledge of core system between members but not available in any convenient place for newbies like me to access.

Just my two cents. Now with new Jolla management I’m really hopeful we’ll see more and more components open and documented so more of us can get onboard and start making SFOS overall better experience for everyone.

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