Community IRC meeting, next steps?

General
#11

I think using already existing tools is something to start with. For example, if there is an answer to a topic X which points to thread X in the forum, Jolla should answer to that topic and put it “sticky/answer” to that question. People should not be required to go multiple places to look for the information (for example meeting logs +TJC + forum + wiki).

Also, migrating data from TJC is kinda the spirit of this idea. It should be put EoL as soon as possible. Now we are kinda in a limbo where some people are waiting for data to be migrated, so that there won’t be duplicate topics and so on.

Transparency is the key. People want to help and be informed. That should be made as easy as possible. People around this community and developers are passionate about Sailfish. Everybody is just frustrated since helping out and getting information is made as hard as possible.

For the 3.4 release it would again be nice to have blog about the development and what difficulties you faced during the implementation.

3 Likes
#12

About the tools, maybe some public bug tracker with issues reported by community?

6 Likes
#13

GitLab’s bug tracker works fine, also when not publishing source code.

1 Like
#14

About the bug tracker you’re refreshing an old discussion.

@maajussi: This is another example of an underlying problem that was amplified by TJC: Scattered information. Topics that are raised and raised again because the answers to them got lost somewhere in the post history jungle. And as has been noted already, too often there’s no answer at all.
Let’s start a FAQ! And please do take a look on the most frequently opened questions / highest voted ones on TJC as well as here. The community sure is willing to help collect questions and answers to it. Put it in a prominent and discoverable place

Personally I think that Jolla, despite the bad things that happened in the past would benefit from engaging with their users again. It’s possible to answer questions about planned features and current implementation progress without committing to everything as it was set in stone.
I’m repeating points made already above, I guess. but it’s not so much what tools and technology we’re using but which culture of communication there is. The Linux Kernel developers communicate via plain old mailing lists for decades .

2 Likes
#15

personally,
I have stopped joining the meetings as they feel a bit like “throwing things at the wall” or a “bikeshed”; we all know jolla is busy and small.
like any startup, they are extremely constrained in resources.
but the point of the meeting is to keep the contact with the community; kind of “we are here” type of thing. but nothing else. I mean, some items proposed have been handled, yes; but where is the roadmap you mention? we as a community have no idea what thats about. or what comes next, for that matter.
even a community backlog / bugtracker would help already; if jolla cant fix their things because theres no ressources, they must learn to levereage the community id say. surprising they havent done so yet if you ask me. Also btw community members pay licenses, so they are paying customers just as much no?

5 Likes
#16

TBH what does ‘newer’, better, ‘more open’ offer?
When the problem is caused by lazy, lame, elusive answering and action?
There are lots of examples, I will bring here only the creation of this forum and the handling of taking over the old content.

How do you think this forum will look like when all these
e.g. Remove icon texts from app launcher
links will lead to 404?

Any sufficient answer on this
https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/takeover-of-currently-existing-errors-or-questions-from-the-old-forum/1424/2topic from Jolla side? (else than it will take months?)

Will the take-over clutter this forum with all this links now leading back to TJC?

1 Like
#17

@maajussi Any info when Community Meetings will resume?

#18

Yes, we will continue them. Next week meeting is in plans. As we’ve left the TJC behind, we need to check how shall we inform people best of the next meeting and call for the topics. But for sure, the meetings are continued! This chain of discussion was originated to find out if the form of the meeting and connection between Jolla and the community could be upgraded someway.

#19

Maybe the first thing would be to update «#sailfishos-meeting topic was set jeu. juil. 9 00:31:31 2020 by Jaymzz» as it’s somewhat ridiculous now.

#20

Speaking of making IRC meetings better we need to find a way to propose topics in the new forum.

The main topic cant be edited. Its either made editable by all or we propose as replies and the topic is reset after the meeting. No comments there. Just issues.

#21

When scheduling new meeting, please carry over the topics proposed at TJC as they are now.

In principle, we can have one thread per each meeting. Then questions will go as a comments under the announcement.

5 Likes
#22

Why don’t you open a new thread and sticky the next coming up one? All the questions can be asked in the thread and you don’t have the hodgepodge of the olden times.
Edit: rinigus was faster.

1 Like
#23

And the thread could be used for answers also or follow-up information.

3 Likes
#24

Agreed. Just not having high hopes for it… But let us get ready to be positively surprised!

3 Likes
#25

Having a separate category in the new forum for Community events, including the IRC meetings is definitely a possibility. Under the category we could then have topics for events, with the agenda and questions - and answers. I agree that this sounds like a good proposal.

9 Likes
#26

It may even be possible to have community meetings be their own category and each topic be a separate thread. Each of those threads could then be marked as solved, when it was scheduled and answered and for the next meeting the unanswered topics would get scheduled automatically, if everyone is available. The actual announcements would probably still need to happen in a stickied thread, but that way you could keep old topics and their replies around as a reference. Maybe you meant that, but I think it sounds good in theory.

1 Like
#27

@KuroNeko - while it is a great idea, it could be a step too far. We tend to get replies like ‘we cannot comment on this yet’ rather regularly. So, it is not clear whether such questions as a question regarding qt update should be marked as resolved or repeated for few years on every meeting. :slight_smile:

@maajussi - any specific date for the next meeting? do you plan to copy topics that were requested already into the new agenda?

#28

Yeah, that sounds fair. While you could probably work around that by doing some kind of exponential backoff on questions, it would lead to a lot of open topics. On the other hand, obviously Jolla just needs a perfect reply for every topic immediately and this will not be an issue! (beware, I’m joking)

1 Like
#29

@maajussi how about a public bug tracker, for issues to work on for community?

1 Like
#30

Even “we cannot comment” is a reply that should be stickied to specific topic. Agendas refer some specific topic from TJC or forum and should be kept up to date. Even when asked again. “No update on the matter” is also a valid answer and communicates that topic has been looked into and it’s not forgotten.

2 Likes