Claiming warranty on Xperia 10, should I reflash Android, lock the bootloader?

[DrYak]

Funny, I have the opposite experience in Switzerland:

I had a busted micro-USB socket on my Xperia X phone (so I couldn’t easily connect to flashtool and return it to factory state. In fact I couldn’t even charge it).

Warranty-repair subcontracting company explained that they don’t give a damn what’s installed on the phone:
they will always wipe the phone, flash the factory image and relock the boatloader as part of their standard repair procedure (to cover troubles which are of software origin I presume? Or just to be sure the technicians will find the standard self-diagnose tools in there?).
And it’s the responsibility of the end user to back their data up before sending and then restore them upon return.
(Luckily in my case, everything was perfectly backed up with rsync over Wifi before. One of the small joys of running a full blown GNU/Linux on the phone).

So it proves that it’s pefectly doable for a company to service hardware trouble on a rooted phone.

I would also suggest going to a consumer rights group (luckily we have those here in Europe).

[rgp]

It’s been a while, but didn’t you have to backup a partition to be able to relock the BL on the X?

(And this was doable due to a flaw in the earlier version of Android which is not possible on the later devices.)

So unless you provided them with the backup, I presume they have other software cable of relocking the BL?

[toanja]

It’s interesting how differently repairs of unlocked devices seem to be handled in different European countries. Couple of years ago I sent my xperia x to repair in Finland because of broken back camera. They would have repaired it, but only after replacing the whole board because of the unlocked bootloader. the service company said that this was because of Sony warranty policy. I declined, because the cost was more than 200e. Had to to pay 35e fee though for sending the device to repairs. In the end I ordered a new back camera (<20e, including delivery) from aliexpress and replaced the part myself. Did not recognise any difference in quality compared to the original part.

[DrYak]

didn’t you have to backup a partition to be able to relock the BL on the X?

I think you’re remembering the Trim Area (TA partition), this partition will self destruct as part of the official unlocking procedure.
This partition holds a couple of cryptographic keys which are used as part of the DRM scheme and (on older Xperia X firmware versions) also to unlock some of the advanced custom image processing that Sony has developed for the camera.

Restoring this partition is not necessary to relock the boot-loader (you can relock by just reflashing a complete brand new clean Sony official firmware including all the partition), but not restoring it means that you will miss the crypto key and will have reduced DRM capabilities (a different widevidecdn level on netflix ?)

(And this was doable due to a flaw in the earlier version of Android which is not possible on the later devices.)

Indeed if you want to back it up yourself, you need to gain root access on android before unlocking the boot loader (and thus before TA self-destructs). On Xperia X this was done by using the “Dirty CoW” exploit, I’ve done it just in case, but at no point did the repair subcontractor ask for it.

For my next Xperia XA Plus upgrade, I didn’t back this up, as at that time there wasn’t any useful exploit and given that the repairs never asked for it, I didn’t see the point. (by the time I finish using that one, it will be considered “old hardware” and nobody will bother buying it second hand anyway, so nobody will miss the DRM keys).

I presume they have other software cable of relocking the BL?

In theory, as an official repair subcontractor, they could have had access to official Sony tools and be able to reflash the TA partition with a new official key.
Or maybe they just relocked the thing as-is.
Frankly, I avoid DRM like plague so I haven’t gotten to occasion to check if my widevinecdn level has been degraded.

If the contractor doesn’t have the tools the last possibility to restore DRM without a backup is to swap the motherboard with a new one from Sony (who in turn have the flash tools to refurbish it), as @toanja has reported.
But in my case (replacing a separate daughter board that handles charging), it doesn’t make sense the DRM keys are necessary.

[DrYak]

It’s interesting how differently repairs of unlocked devices seem to be handled in different European countries.

I think the main difference is that Switzerland has extremely strong and active consumer protection associations (on a similar level as Germany), so it’s not worth for company to piss off consumer.

Couple of years ago I sent my xperia x to repair in Finland because of broken back camera. They would have repaired it, but only after replacing the whole board because of the unlocked bootloader. the service company said that this was because of Sony warranty policy.

“Policies” of some private company cannot overrule European laws about warranty on consumer goods. That would be illegal.

Sony would have to prove that the unlocking of the bootloader caused the breaking of the camera. There is a very tiny sliver of truth here: on some older version of the Android firmware on Xperia X (I think up to Nougat ?) the Sony own special customized camera app needed the crypto key to unlock some special image processing custom code. So technically, on these old phones and firmware, unlocking the bootloader would immediately result in slightly degraded picture quality in the photos (on par of the other android phone with standard apps, instead of Sony’s custom app that should have Apple-level of photo touch-ups).

But that’s clearly not the case with you phone: the camera has been working successfully for quite some time on Sailfish until being completely fubar one day (not as in missing some processing bells and whistles but as in not working anymore), and as future proof, the replacement of the camera module and touching nothing else solved it perfectly.

In your case, I would try getting in touch with some local consumer protection association.

• If your phone was under warranty, they are obligated to repair the phone for free unless it’s the result of clear destruction from your action (it’s not, see above).
• If the phone is not under warraty, they still don’t have ground to force you to accept a full motherboard swap for some obscure “policy” reasons when that’s clearly not the problem (it’s probably a mixture of them wanting to be able to bill you a more expensive and thus more lucrative repair options, and of Sony probably wanting to keep their “intellectual property” protected by dissuading end-users to tinker with DRM and cryptokeys).

When not free under warranty, replacing the module your self is probably the cheaper option (though not easier given the glued together parts).

[freny]

I accidentally dropped my Xperia 10 II and the screen broke.

Contractor (Sweden) says that a screen replacement would cost just over half the cost of a new phone but since I’ve unlocked the bootloader they would need to replace the motherboard and that in it self is more expensive than a new phone. They also claim that my insurance will not cover this since the fault (unlocking bootloader) was caused by me.

If had not unlocked the bootloader and the phone was actually beyond repair, my insurance would cover the cost of a new phone.

[DrYak]

I accidentally dropped my Xperia 10 II and the screen broke. {…} They also claim that my insurance will not cover this since the fault (unlocking bootloader) was caused by me.

Wait are they claiming that the broken screen was caused by the unlocked bootloader?
Or that an unlocked bootloader suddenly makes it impossible replace a screen by some magic?

I don’t know which is the least ridiculous claim from their part but both are equally wrong.
Anyway this is a completely wrong answer by the contractor.

At best you should try to get some local consumer-protection association involved.
At minimum you should get the insurance involved and discuss finding a different contractor which doesn’t require ridiculous motherboard swaps.

(I suppose the insurance’s logic is that in order to avoid botched repair, they have a list of “known good” contractors to which they send the devices (and they tend to prefer contractors officially licensed by the manufacturer). And in turn, in order to obtain some official “Seal of approval” by Sony, the contactor has signed some contract with Sony where they promise to swap unlocked motherboards. Anyway that’s bonkers).

In general, though, unless you break your screens on an extremely regular basis, I would advise against contracting an insurance saving the money and in putting it into an account. If it breaks outside of the regular 24-months warranty period, it’s cheaper to get the screen replaced in some smaller shop using the saved money, than paying the insurance.
(I might be biased: over the 25 years or so I’ve been using PDAs and then smartphones, I’ve broken 2-3 screen. Each time replace, twice on an OpenMoko so ultra-cheap to order a replacement on ebay and then replace myself)

[filip.k]

DrYak has a point. More than one actually . If you can still have access to the phone you can reflash it. If you enabled dev mode you can even ssh into it and do do a backup. But OTOH that would acknowledge their wrongdoing.

[freny]

@DrYak

In general, though, unless you break your screens on an extremely regular basis, I would advise against contracting an insurance saving the money and in putting it into an account.

I’ve had mobile phones for 25 years and this Xperia 10 II is the first one I have broken.

1. Contacted insurance company which referred me to a local repair shop (edit: to get quota on how much it would cost to repair).
2. Visited local repair shop, key staff on vacation.
3. Called local repair shop after vacation, they no longer repair Sony devices and referred me to Sony Sweden.
4. Sony Sweden referred me to a “send in only service center” (contractor).
5. So far I have only had email correspondence with contractor, I told them that Sailfish OS is installed (they would find out anyway). At least I have not yet incurred any shipping or diagnostic fees.

@filip.k

If you can still have access to the phone you can reflash it. If you enabled dev mode you can even ssh into it and do do a backup.

Unfortunately both wifi and dev mode was off at the time

A work colleague has an XA2 where the speaker stopped working, similar result when he tried to get it repaired on warranty (can’t ask him more about it at the moment, on vacation).

[filip.k]

So then I guess you can reflash it.

[freny]

I also asked the contractor “Is it possible to replace battery without replacing motherboard on a rooted Sony phone?”
(Maybe a bit unclear since I did not explicitly state that this was a hypothetical question?)

Got an answer this morning (translated from Swedish by me):
"Hello again. We are unfortunately not allowed to do that as an authorized Sony workshop.

As the device is rooted we are in fact not allowed to handle it at all."

[filip.k]

I’m pretty sure this violates consumer rights in Europe. Some reading on that topic.

[Steve_Everett]

An interesting thread. Certainly if it is a hardware failure unrelated to, and not caused by changing, the software then this will not affect any statutory warranty offered on the hardware components.

As a lot of you above have said, EU consumer law providing a statutory warranty on the hardware components will apply to all applicable devices covered by such a law regardless of whether the supplying company’s policies or terms & conditions say something different. The statute reigns supreme.

There are some cases where software can cause a hardware failure (e.g. some continuous CPU intensive process that causes the device to overheat where there is no protection built in to the hardware circuitry) for example, but again the supplier would have to prove this cause to the evidential standard of on the balance of probabilities.

The fact that Sony run an Open devices programme and therefore allow the bootloader to be unlocked to run other OS’s also implies that they are themselves tacitly authorising the use of other operating systems on their hardware - which makes their approach even harder to fathom.

However, in all these cases they often rely on the consumer never challenging this type of failure by taking legal action because it would simply cost the user more to do this than the device is worth. Again the advice to approach a consumer support organisation (we also have something called ‘Trading Standards’ in the UK which helps consumers enforce consumer law) is also good advice.

Finally, often repair subcontractors often just do what they re contracted to do down to a price and no more - so they really have no interest in doing something different other than a ‘standard repair process’ - the fault here is Sony’s.

[Keeper-of-the-Keys]

As @Steve_Everett already mentions the refusal to fix is probably illegal in most parts of Europe.

That being said I would reflash for a totally different reason - I would not want to send my device with my data to an in the end unknown party, so in an ideal world you would dump the current contents of the partitions so you can flash it back onto the device and then put whatever they want to see on the device (at the very least I would rsync /home/ and reflash with an empty OS).

Also the Xperia X is pretty repairable with a heatgun and an iFixit kit, if we’re messing around with the OS why not with the hardware

[Steve_Everett]

@Keeper-of-the-Keys

As @Steve_Everett already mentions the refusal to fix is probably illegal in most parts of Europe.

I think there is a little bit of of confusion here. A legal warranty (statutory or otherwise) is an obligation from the supplier that their product will be, for example, free of defects for a period of X years from the date of purchase or whatever. If such a warranty is expressed in terms like this then there is no specific obligation for the supplier to fix the product (because the warranty or other contractual term does not say this).

In contract law, when a contract is breached by one party (the supplier), for example because the product is not free of defects, the legal obligation is to put the injured party (the customer) back in the position he or she would have been had the contract been successfully discharged (e.g. the customer was successfully provided with a working product for the duration of the warranty period).

The supplier can normally choose how to honour this warranty - he may choose to repair the product, or equally he may choose to replace it with a working product of the same type and of a similar age, or even new - depending upon what the warranty condition in the contract or statute actually says. The supplier may even elect to honour his legal obligation by paying the customer money (damages) so that he/she can go out and buy another phone from another supplier.

Hence unless the warranty actually says the supplier will fix the device there is no legal obligation for him to take this specific route to honouring his warranty obligation.

[fridlmue]

And in most cases not SONY is the PoC for warranty claims for you, as a customer, but the dealer. So you should contact your dealer to handle that situation. He has the contract with you, not SONY, when within the legal warranty period. (At least in Germany as far as i know. Most likely then this is valid for other EU markets as well, but I don’t know.)

[Keeper-of-the-Keys]

@Steve_Everett you are of course correct that fixing is not necessarily what has to happen, but Sony has to remedy the situation and can’t refuse to do so based on the fact the device is running a different OS.

Of course their repair facility may claim (reasonably?) that they lack the tools to assess the state of the hardware when different software is running on the device and thus they are unable to reach a decision whether or not they need to replace parts/replace the device.

My guess is that in general it is cheaper/easier for sony to run a diagnostic and in the event of a part failure just replace the whole device then to open it up, though opening devices up is possible (I have done it) it is much harder these days and I’m not sure that it is economical at scale, which is why you should have all your data backed up before you send the device in and as I said before for your privacy you should really factory reset the device before sending it in.

@fridlmue a lot of shops explicitly sell devices with a statement that they are under manufacturer warranty and not directly at the store (or only first year at the store).

[Steve_Everett]

@fridlmue

And in most cases not SONY is the PoC for warranty claims for you, as a customer, but the dealer.

Indeed, the supplier is whomever you bought the device from and is not necessarily the manufacturer.

[Steve_Everett]

@Keeper-of-the-Keys

@fridlmue a lot of shops explicitly sell devices with a statement that they are under manufacturer warranty and not directly at the store (or only first year at the store).

Perhaps, but your contract of sale (in which any statutory warranty is implied into) is with the supplier. This could be Sony if you bought it direct from Sony, or it could be a shop in the high street. It is the supplier who is therefore legally responsible for honouring the warranty. He may then have a back-to-back claim against Sony, but this is not the customer’s concern.

If you were to minded to sue, you would be suing the supplier for breach of contract, not the manufacturer (unless they were one and the same). Unless you bought the device from Sony itself you would have no contract with Sony to claim was in breach.

Same as if you bought a bag of potatoes from a French supermarket and when you got home they were all mouldy and unusable - you would take your claim back to the Supermarket, not the Irish farmer who planted them and dug them up!

[lolek]

I’ve read this topic and many more topics. I bought Xperia 10 to just give it a try to the SFOS 4.x as I tested it back with older Xperia some time ago. Back then I knew that using Sony devices is a disaster from the consumer related to warranty point of view. I know that Sony has great Android Open Source Developer program but since their attitude to honor HW warranty is like that, in my opinion Jolla should really start switching to different HW. Sony is known for being the evil one regarding DRM and that doesn’t goes in line with Open Source Linux and etc.