Article in Aamulehti about Jolla (finnish only)

[wetab73]

@deloptes

flag a post without revealing their identity and post get hidden and at the end deleted.

I’ve just discovered that my post was hidden? removed? (well, not visible or in any way reachable anymore), due to alleged “community flags”. Completely anonymous and invisible to me, of course. That literally one sentence long post was merely saying that I’d prefer SFOS not to get involved in any institutional or governmental cooperation (with the EU or any other body) so that in the future it doesn’t possibly result in e.g. built-in virus- or carbon trace- tracking, or any other such things. That’s LITERALLY ALL the removed post was saying.

I find it exceptionally bad if posts on this forum get censored and removed for merely expressing such opinions, and such an entirely polite way. And that it is done anonymously is especially awful.

I would like to take this opportunity to say that there are a few people on this forum whose main activity is to incite quarells by patronizing and scolding people (for saying whatever isn’t to their liking) and then anonymously flagging their responses. It is those people who are partly responsible for this community being so small and many people quickly leaving, as their attiude simply scares people away.

I guess that if flagging posts wasn’t anonymous, it would stop or at least reduce such behavior of those people and make them at least feel responsible for what they do. There is absolutely no valid reason to do it anonymously.

[Fellfrosch]

@wetab73

I find it exceptionally bad if posts on this forum get censored and removed for merely expressing such opinions, and such an entirely polite way. And that it is done anonymously is especially awful.

I don’t know, what post you are talking about, probably one of yours and maybe this one was polite. But I find it insightful, that you are quoting a post which I wouldn’t exactly call polite, and that, when you are complaining about a deleted post which was objective and polite.

To speak frankly, comparing people who are moderating a forum, with Nazis (which are persons who are in favour of a regime which totured and slaughtered millions of people - just to bring that in memory again, people tend to forget far too quickly) is not impolite, it is even far beyond from what I would call rude.

Such a comparison is in ANY way just unacceptable.

[deloptes]

Anonymous flagging was discussed before and it was pointed out that it is undemocratic - especially without providing a reason or being able to debate.
I give it up, I know it will not change. BTW I proposed that Jolla can sell their shares to all - something as micro investment, but still there should be a business plan, which I do not see.
And no idea why the post was hidden again.
Anyway - I wish someone can fork the code, so that we have the good OS before all goes down.
Take these words seriously! And don’t flag, please!

[wetab73]

@Fellfrosch

I don’t know, what post you are talking about, probably one of yours

Yes, I explicitly wrote that I was referring to a post of mine that got anonymously flagged and removed for no comprehensible reason.

@Fellfrosch

I find it insightful, that you are quoting a post which I wouldn’t exactly call polite, and that, when you are complaining about a deleted post which was objective and polite.

Please note that I didn’t quote “a post” but only a tiny fragment of it (that attracted my attention as related to the same problem that affected my comment), and it was only that tiny fragment that I referred to, exclusively when it comes to the problem of anonymously flagging (and this way censoring/removing) posts. I didn’t refer to any other parts of that (or any other) post.

@Fellfrosch

To speak frankly, comparing people who are moderating a forum, with Nazis

Fully agreed. But why are you addressing this to me? I have literally nothing to do with it.

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EDIT: Can you believe that this very post got flagged and hidden? Please try a find a single inappropriate word in it. It is the perfect example of how flags are permanently anonymously abused.

[Fellfrosch]

If you pick a small bit of statement to underline your opinion, without declining the rest of this statement. It’s quite natural that some people (including me) start to think you fully agree with the whole statement. If it isn’t like that, I addressed it to the wrong person, and I apologize for that.

If you are against anonymous flagging, is your opinion, that we all have to use our real names?
If not, it is in my eyes still quite anonymous. Why should I care, it’s still just a nickname.
If you are in favour of real names, the question is, if that isn’t a paradox. Isn’t one of the reasons one uses Sailfish, privacy concerns against the big tech companies?

[wetab73]

@Fellfrosch

f you pick a small bit of statement to underline your opinion, without declining the rest of this statement. It’s quite natural that some people (including me) start to think you fully agree with the whole statement.

The whole idea of quotes is to quote what you want to refer to, i.e. to explicitly denote and distinguish the exact part you’re referring to and commenting on. It is completely unserious to expect that at the same time one has to refer to or deny (not to even mention condemn) the whole rest of someone’s post, or maybe all of his opinions expressed in a thread. Please, be serious.

Anyway, that’s all I had to say regarding this. EOT.

@Fellfrosch

If you are against anonymous flagging, is your opinion, that we all have to use our real names?

No, I am OBVIOUSLY only suggesting that flagging should be indicated the EXACT SAME way as “likes” are, i.e. by listing usernames / avatars of those who flagged the post just like currently usernames / likes of those who liked the post are shown. As simple as that. This would, among others, indicate if it isn’t those same users flagging someone’s response who earlier incited the quarell and provoked that response. Which would quickly discourage such people from doing such things.

There is no reason why likes are shown this way (and even have statistics and a dedicated rank in one’s profile) but flagging isn’t, especially that allowing to flag posts anonymously makes it possible to abuse it to hide / remove posts of persons one has a disagreement / argument with in a discussion. As it is very often the case.

It should take having a civil courage to do so, and it should involve measures needed to exclude the possibility of any abuse, given that it leads to censorship and removal of posts, very often without real reasons.

Again, that’s all I had to say regarding the above, so EOT from me.

@Fellfrosch

If you are in favour of real names, the question is, if that isn’t a paradox.

I never said a word about using real names. It’s already the second time that you’re putting in my mouth things I’ve never even referred to with a single word. Kindly stop doing it.

[Kanthal]

I believe a temporary hidden post is already proof that no one is getting silenced here. Almost every other popular forum would probably lock the thread, mute you just by going off topic topic and probably ban people when they start posting political stuff and heavy insults like on this thread.

So I would say freedom of speech is respected pretty well on this forum. Even if it annoys some people like me for example, when I have to read stuff like that instead of news about my favorite OS that’s on the verge of bankruptcy.

Just saying…

[Fellfrosch]

@wetab73

I never said a word about using real names. It’s already the second time that you’re putting in my mouth things I’ve never even referred to with a single word. Kindly stop doing it.

No I didn’t, you talked about anonymity and using only nicknames IS anonymous. No matter if they are shown or not. If you think

@wetab73

There is no reason why likes are shown this way… but flagging isn’t,

I agree with you.
But anyway, as already written, that’s the decision of the forum’s host. You have stated your opinion about that, and that’s it. You have no claim on things like that, you are a guest and the forum is an offer with given rules.

[wetab73]

@Kanthal

So I would say freedom of speech is respected pretty well on this forum.

Which doesn’t contradict that maybe removing anonymity of flagging would make it even better as it might prevent or reduce abuse. So there’s certainly no harm in suggesting it.

@Kanthal

I believe a temporary hidden post is already proof that no one is getting silenced here. Almost every other popular forum would probably lock the thread, mute you just by going off topic

My post wasn’t temporarily hidden but it completely disappeared (after I got a message that it was flagged by someone). I wouldn’t say that it was off topic or in any other way inappropriate as it only contained one sentence: that it would be better to stay away from institutional/governmental ties (e.g. with the EU) in order to not have to one day include things that would affect privacy and track our activities (like e.g. covid or carbon trace). Having the post removed for merely such an opinion is a perfect example of how anonymous flagging leads to abuse, causing posts to get removed not because they infringe any rules but because someone PERSONALLY dislikes someone’s opinion.

@Fellfrosch

No I didn’t, you talked about anonymity and using only nicknames IS anonymous.

I clearly explained what I meant. So please exit that loop.

@Fellfrosch

But anyway, as already written, that’s the decision of the forum’s host. You have stated your opinion about that, and that’s it. You have no claim on things like that, you are a guest and the forum is an offer with given rules.

Where did I say that it is anything more than a request and suggestion? So, for the last time, please stop putting words in my mouth, and please also kindly stop patronizing me and telling me who I am on this forum. This is getting tiring.

[Fellfrosch]

@wetab73

So, for the last time, please stop putting words in my mouth, and please also kindly stop patronizing me and telling me who I am on this forum.

Calm down my friend.

[wetab73]

@Fellfrosch

Calm down my friend.

You can always anonymously flag it.
Have a nice day.

[Jolla]

This thread has been closed permanently due to multiple community flags and the diversion of the discussion from its original purpose (Aamulehti article). If you wish, you can continue discussing the forum’s policies in a new dedicated thread. However, we kindly remind you to maintain a polite and objective tone throughout the discussion.