A love letter to the Jolla Store/Harbour

Yep, a love letter, really.

I think the Jolla Store and Harbour deserve more love. From @jolla, and from us, the community.

Right now, we’ve become very good at working around it. Something doesn’t seem likely to pass Harbour validation? Use OpenRepos or Chum. The Store version is limited or outdated? Tell users to install the “real” one somewhere else or send them to the terminal to install packages manually.

To be clear: I love that these options exist. I want developer mode, Storeman, Chum and all of that to remain possible. That openness is part of what makes Sailfish OS interesting. They just shouldn’t be entrance criteria.

For a normal user, the boring, default route should be: open Store, search, install, done. No developer mode, no ‘allow untrusted sources’, no command line, no first-launch message saying “for full functionality, install this other version from somewhere else”.

On iOS - golden cage, arbitrary rulings, and all - I can still choose between multiple good SSH clients, VPN clients, Python IDEs, and even package capture tools… from the App Store. I’m not saying that because I want Sailfish OS to turn into iOS. I’m saying this because this platform can offer that too, while keeping the freedom and openness that make it different.

And if we are serious about building a viable European :european_union::heart: alternative with more than a niche appeal, I think this is exactly the sort of thing worth investing in: making the official path good enough so that developers actually want to use it for most if not all of their use cases. So that users can easily find and use the software they need.

That means some work for both sides, but I think this community has proven plenty of sisu in the past. :flexed_biceps:

@jolla: the Store and Harbour need active investment. Modern use cases need to be possible. Rules and APIs need to evolve. Developers need more direct channels and clear answers when they run into limitations. And, yes, I think paid applications eventually need to become possible. If somebody spends hundreds of hours building and maintaining a good app long-term, they need a monetisation model. (I can imagine the red-tape around this being a nightmare, but it is worth it!)

Us: we should try harder to ship through Harbour. If something fails validation, and if the rule makes sense, adapt. If the rule is outdated or too restrictive, nag Jolla. Politely, persistently, constructively. If an API is missing, make the case for it. If packaging rules block a perfectly reasonable application architecture, document the use case and push for improvement. Because every time we do that, we help make the official platform a little better for the next developer.

I’d love to see us make the Jolla Store the default again: the place where developers aim to publish first, where users expect to find current software, and where Jolla gets direct feedback whenever the platform gets in the way.

Love, muhnschein :heart::full_moon:

p.s. Whoever’s the first to point out that I should have posted this in another category gets a cookie :zany_face:

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What flavour of cookie?

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I love the attitude, idea, and it’s execution!

More of that please from all of us!

The category is right. Thanks for the cookies :face_savoring_food:.

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There are only so many hours in a day, I’m not wasting them on the Jolla Store.
You like my apps? Get them from OpenRepos. I’m not making any money from them anyway.
Maybe I consider the store again if they ever decide to be developer friendly, but in it’s current state, I pass. Over a decade of disappointment left its mark.

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I respect that, and you are entirely free to do with your time as you choose. :wink: I hope a sizable group of people will choose otherwise.

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Over a month ago I submitted a few apps to the store, namely BitSailor and some others. I managed to do 17 releases of BitSailor on OpenRepos before I got even one on Jolla.

And that’s of course including bugfixes etc. If the app actually ever releases there, it will be very much outdated. Waiting month and a half for approval of an app is a joke. And not the funny kind.

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Kudos for all the work you put in, honestly. I fully understand the frustration. I’d love if you’d find it in you to keep pushing them, but I fully understand if that’s not the case.

(I have one app in Harbour QA now, with one more soon to follow. So I intend to put my money where my mouth is :slight_smile: )

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How do I push them? They ignore every attempt at communication.

Edit: I don’t know when exactly I added the app to the store (because it only shows “a month ago” and not a date) but I’d say it was at least 40 days.

If they did review a single app per day, that means we can expect at least 40 new apps in the store before BitSailor.

Unless, of course, they don’t give a crap to review at least one app daily.

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And why push them?
As far as I know, and please correct me if I’m wrong, having an app in Jolla store means the app is using supported apis and it works. The source code doesn’t have to be available or inspected. That aligns with the fact that I’ve seen quite a few closed source vibe coded apps in Jolla store.
Doesn’t sound like a place where I would want to get my apps from if it’s always 1-2 months or years behind plus I have to investigate myself anyway.

Am I wrong here?

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Jolla store may not check the code, but the app is guaranteed to be sailjailed, if distributed in there. That fact limits a lot bad app behaviour. Openrepos is kind of the unrestricted playground for all software types out there…

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I understand your frustration. Was there a few times but it’s not exactly like black and white. I’m not sure that they ignore every communication about store. There are often some questions and debate at a community meeting. I remember that there was talk recently about which API store restrictions are not really productive and what to improve.

But I do hope that approval time will shorten drastically. I do hope they invest some money, energy and time into this and some other hot topics left a bit behind. With a new users flood and much better cash flow that should be doable.

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Yeah, I was part of one such topic. They basically said “indeed, someone should look into lowering the restrictions” and then nothing happened.

Community meetings are just performative.

I mean, the fact they haven’t hired a community manager throughout the decade+ they’ve been operating tells you everything you need to know about how they care about their customers.

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Personally I’m really grateful when developers push apps to Harbour. In my dream there will be day when all users don’t have to anymore have all three stores :slight_smile:

But of course, that to work, Jolla need to have at least one person full time approving apps to Harbour and actively developing it. As filip said, with the available money they have the option, I hope they use it well

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I don’t remember if there was someone before @cybette, and some time after she left Jolla, there was James Noori, but he also left around 2018. I’m sure we can blame the financial difficulties of Jolla for both of them leaving and there not being appointed community manager since James left.

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@jukka was the OG community manager :slight_smile: , and after James, there were sailors (e.g. @flypig @abranson) who covered a lot of the community management tasks even if there wasn’t a full-time CM. However, @Jolla definitely still cares about the community (and customers), while it’s also true that they need more hands on deck for community, Harbour, customer service etc. As part of the community, we are all contributing to the success of the Jolla Phone, which will hopefully mean more resources for the abovementioned areas. :crossed_fingers: :four_leaf_clover:

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100% support this. I have said the same thing before, although very quietly, so I think it is awesome you say this now loudly (and better).
2022 was the last update on the harbour API front, as far as I know (Sailfish Community News, 8th September, New Harbour APIs). I am a new developer. I started development of VNgine (a visual novel game engine, getting ready for alpha release) in March this year, with this exact mindset. Publish on harbour, and publish every game as a stand alone package, to make it as easy as possible for new sailors.
One of the problems I encountered is file management. I can create screenshots in QML, but then not delete them (Deleting orphaned files), which can lead to a lot of orphaned files. I had to choose, workaround with 1 file buffer, and then place images into a database, or accept orphaned files, or pester Jolla until they solve my problem. I chose to just accept the orphaned files, but I don’t like it.
I think there was a API poll somewhere on this forum, but I couldn’t quickly find it. And I don’t think answering it would change anything.
I am thankful for every app that is available to me. I am not going to be annoying to developers for not using harbour. But I am going to emphasize publishing to harbour as a virtue.

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If there is no appropriate Harbour topic, just create one.

Muhnschein
I agree with you: Jolla Store should be the default store here. Developers need encouragement to create apps for Jolla Store. Jolla apps being Sailjailed are perhaps more trustworthy than some apps from OpenRepos ?
I understand that some developers want to make apps without any restriction, so playing around elsewhere should be possible. For users and for reliability transparency is most important.

Most OpenRepos apps are also sailjailed.
It’s not that developers don’t want any restrictions at all but in most cases it’s simply impossible to write apps to be harbour compatible and at the same time provide the desired functionality to the user.
So your choice is more often than not Chum and OpenRepos or no app at all.

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Well, that’s not quite true. The last time a new API was added to the list of allowed APIs was with the 5.1 release, i.e. just a few months ago.

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