Where to go after Sailfish?

General
#23

No matter how many emojis you append, I still think you’re being rude.

I do know that. I advertised that. I used sailfish to the boundary of these limiotations. And I still see all the good things sailfish does right.

Already, I suggested I may leave the sailfish ecosystem for now. This is not only my sad story, but I believe other will have encountered a similar situation. If they have, it might help me out how they made the move, and how they kept as much of sailfish as possible in their new phone. Regarding

I can only say, that this is not about ma heartbreaking story, but about finding a way to overcome said limitations in the presence.

I can not imagine how fast you can read, but neither are you forced to read my walls of text, nor are you respecting the time I put into explaining with all necessary detail, what my problem is. Apparently, I didn’t invest enough time, since you still didn’t understand it fully.

Finally something I can agree with. But silently accepting defeat and come running back to apple is not an option.

1 Like
#24

If the outward appearance of the Xperia 10 and 10 II don’t suit your fancy, you could explore an older supported model like the XA2. I find it to be a rather elegant design, the squared off design blends to a natural metal curve, and the screen-to-body ratio is excellent, even with a chin and forehead. I honestly think it goes well with the SFOS design of the bold colors for the pulley menu, far better than the edge-to-edge approach of the X10s. And it’s still an excellent performance bump from the J1. No, it does not support aarch64 with Kvarken, but with the necessity of rewriting applications to work with aarch64, that won’t be a major loss for quite some time.
The XA2 also has a very good size overall, certainly bigger than the J1 but not as massive as the X10s, though if you wanted, the XA2 has a Plus and Ultra model that hits that 6" phablet size. If you’re used to that iPhone 4S at all, the XA2 is the only alternative besides the old XX that you can’t even buy the SFOS license for anymore.
Most XA2s only have 32GB of space though, 64GB models are only available in the Plus and Ultra. Battery life has always been solid for me, I’m on my second year, third in November, and I still regularly finish the day with 40%, and am very careful to use only 5V1A or 5V2A chargers.

Even if third-party / Android app support isn’t a big deal for you, having support for Android 10 as opposed to 4.4 will still be tremendous for performance and capabilities. I don’t find webapps to be comparable in performance for anyone who might need those services, but I know having access to a working webapp at all is better than the nothing I get with the Sailfish browser. I’ll sacrifice and have a little bit of Google Chrome with Bromite to ensure better access to some websites.

I’m a bit confused about you mentioning “swiping instead of typing” and you do go on to describe swiping, but more in the sense of the UX design Sailfish has of gesture interfaces. If you do mean this, “tapping” is the proper term. If you’re trying to describe the swiping method for the keyboard, Sailfish doesn’t have that officially, which both Android and iOS do have that, included with the OS from the moment you turn it on. For SFOS you need to download “OKBoard” which is on a third-party repository. This is still an impressive inclusion and a good option to have, though it doesn’t do it as well as its counterparts (it breaks if you try to swipe the word “is”).

To cover the last bases of that, admittedly SFOS hasn’t done amazingly well with voice assisted technology, and once again the community has come in a few times to try and implement that. Snipek was one such attempt that used a self-hostable voice module, but now Snips has closed source. At this time there’s only one app even trying, Speech Note, using Mozilla DeepMind. However, I believe Pure Maps does allow a TTS engine to dictate travel. It’s more rudimentary compared to modern GPS apps, but if Android support is in the cards, Magic Earth is free, no ads, uses OSS (though isn’t OSS in and of itself).
Fingerprint reader is on the XA2, and is good. Tapping it once lights up the screen but sadly opens at the PIN code and not the clock, a second tap automatically unlocks it. It’s fairly responsive though. Amazingly it’s about the same size as the camera, but it’s positioned just right so you’re never smudging the camera. It isn’t an incredible camera, but it’s reliable for the occasional document scan or schedule snap.

It’s possible I’m overlooking a lot of things but I am admittedly handling a lot of Sailfish’s shortcomings with Android. But my use case is just different, and maybe I’m a bit of a masochist for just dealing with it.
I personally got bored with Android, I dived over to Blackberry 10 a long time ago and it was a blast for all of 2 years. Eventually I had to come back to Android and it wasn’t until I got the opportunity about where I live to purchase and use a Sony phone as a reliable daily driver. Sailfish OS was in beta for XA2 right as I got the phone. So even as an Android user and certainly using a lot more services than some people, I’ve been able to use SFOS instead of Android for a lot of things. I think a staunch, long-term user like yourself simply needs to upgrade your hardware, and expand your horizons.

5 Likes
#26

Thank you for the respectful and comprehensive reply, adressing lots of my concerns.

Overall, it seems like you’re advertising the same route as @deloptes, @Peeder ans most before, albeit with a concern for my dislike of the Xperia 10 II. Just like you, I found the size and built of the XA2 a more elegant design, that is more in line with the Jolla aesthetic. However, I possibly wrongly had the impression, that it would be too antiquated to be of good use as well.

Since I could live until today with only a part of my 16GB available for files on the phone, I will not have a problem with 32GB, and you correctly assumed that the larger phablet style is not right for me.

That as well goes along what people before you have advertised, and slowly I see that it will not be a comparable experience to the Jolla1.

I am not a native English speaker, obviously, and I wanted to mean “tapping”. I know how the swiping keyboards work, and although this is a nice feature on iPhones, I do not need it. Instead, with tapping vs. swiping, I meant the design philosophy behind the Sailfish UX. Thank you nonetheless for your suggestions for OKBoard, I will try that out.

Thank you as well for describing your experience with the fingerprint reader on the XA2. For me the interaction with the device is important, and the experience of using it is hardly ever described. With your explanation, I can picture how it feels to use it, and I can imagine myself being content using it this way.

Also, I will try out some of the voice assisted technology you mention for SFOS, but I’m not confident, that this will be a great experience. I understand implementing this in SFOS would be a (maybe over-)eager goal for Jolla, and perhaps even contradicting to their privacy objectives.

Well, thank you for putting it nicely. I get the message, and delivering it like this makes me consider it even more.

1 Like
#27

Okay, maybe you gort me on the wrong foot here, so I apologize for wasting everyone’s time. Even if I leave: I will be checking back and following the progress of Sailfish, as ultimately, I think SFOS is the mobile OS alternative we need.

#28

In which which app store is Speech Note available?

#29

When I was unsure where to go, I bought on ebay kleinanzeigen an almost new second-hand Xperia XA2 for less than 100 €, the Sailfish license for 50 € (iirc) and … I was delighted!!!

Not with all details of course (the worst, the edges are bit sharp) but in principle it works absolutely fantastic (a phone for 150!).

My compromise is, that I immediately use the up-to-date Android emulator if necessary (as I mentioned in a Brave post using the F-Droid and Aurora store). Android apps work well and are fast. UI wise it’s a bit a regression but my main usage (map, browser) are full screen and it doesn’t matter. Above all: this spares the terrible :nauseated_face: compromise to use the restricted :construction: AppStore or be tracked :spider_web: by Google ad nauseam.

I’d say: try it! – a) the native browser works quite/very well now. Albeit I use almost always the Android based Brave (Firefox would be another option) browser atm, b) battery no complaints, c) fingerprint reader works well (but make sure you “store the fingers” with slightly different angles, d) double tap doesn’t work (afaik) but the button press didn’t bother me (ha! and in this thread I now learned about fingerprint wake-up… it really works :wink: incredible!), e) don’t know about text to speach. I recommend to start separate threads with the things you really need (I asked about maps and got super helpful answers!).

I’m completely lost in this difficult decision, so I appreciate all the help I can get.

With 150 (and some time) the decision might not be so difficult. In the worst case you loose 150 (but you could sell the device again, thus maybe you loose 90).

I don’t want to convice you. But as I wrote above, I was and am delighted, wouldn’t hesitate to spend the money for a new Xperia 10 II device now. This said, I really like the smaller size of the XA2 (and if possible I’d go “more smaller”).

3 Likes
#30

Wrong. I have left Sailfish for /e/OS, but still coming back to check for reasons to come back as I loved the idea and gestures of Sailfish OS. I guess there is few of us, patiently waiting for a signal of new wind in Jolla Oy (or somebody buying it)…

#31

Coming straight from a good old N900, I enjoy Sailfish on my XA2 very much.

That being said, I’m quite aware of its limitations. Some (to me, at least) essential apps won’t work under the android runtime (e.g. banking apps or the corona warn app). My solution to this challenge is to have an additional Android device for those cases where I don’t have an adequate replacement on Sailfish OS (but then again, I’m not that much of an app guy). I find the UI of Android awkward to use and I absolutely despise the fact how many apps “phone home” even when they are not in use. So Android doesn’t get to see the internet if it can be avoided and certainly not from my home :slight_smile:

Maybe the idea of carrying two devices (part-time, at least) is not for everyone but using an XA2 as my daily driver and a cheap Android for those “special” use-cases gives me the piece of mind.

1 Like
#32

Many fair points - and no easy and clear answer. I use Android, iOS and SFOS in parallel, for various reasons (e.g. company rules). My daily driver is still an XZ3 (with Android support that i borrowed from another, non-used (never installed) paid license) because it comes closest to my needs, which includes file management and a fair control over all services and running apps, full off-line operation wrt contacts, calendar, maps navigation etc. The only reason to use the Android phone is/was Corona Warn App. The iPhone drives me crazy but in theory would give me access to my company emails and calendar (however, syncing takes minutes whenever I switch the iPhone X on - this is so slow that I typically use it every two month, so it is pretty worthless) but since my iPhone lost all data (and the virtual keyboard) when I tried to transfer a photo to my windows laptop I quit using the iPhone at all.

I am missing a lot from SFOS, i.e. native office support (calligra?) for being productive or a revival of the rpn calculator (plus more native apps in general) - but at the moment SFOS fills the bill better than Android or iOS.

I suppose there is no “perfect” mobile OS

EDIT: originally I considered the XZ3 too large but now I got used to it. The smaller XZ2 compact would suit you better. However, a used XZ2 compact is more expensive than the XZ3. Since Jolla started aarch64 support with the Xperia 10 ii this might be the future

#33

try to get hands-on on phones of friends, watch some youtube videos, there are literally tons of them on youtube.
that might give you more of an idea what you get.
i hope you understand that i don’t wanna spent 10 mins on elaborating …

#34

Marc, assuming you are still around, what decision did you come to in the end?

I’m in a similar situation with my own Jolla 1: appreciate a small physical size, but also really want a phone with a replaceable battery (I keep my phones for a long time, believe unnecessary hardware replacements are bad for the world - and lost my previous phone when the un-removable battery died). I also don’t want Android on my phone (I have a separate phone for cases where I absolutely need that, but keep its use to a minimum).

I’m wondering about pinephone, or fairphone, or something similar - the main problem being low production volumes bring high prices - but would really miss sailfish.

Graham

#35

I think @pawel.spoon got Volla dual booting, didn’t you? I’m happy with the Vollaphone (and a GS290 from gigaset directly). I’m running 3.4 as my daily driver but 4.2 looks viable (doing development on that).

#36

Looks good. Shame not to have a replaceable battery, and will need to find if I can get one into post-Brexit Britain (having failed miserably with getting a PocketBook over the border a few months ago), but that really looks like a good option otherwise.

Graham

#37

Dear Graham,
I did the unthinkable and moved temporarily to an iPhone 12. As I wrote, I have to be quite far from friends and family at the moment and I neded a reliable way to communicate with them. Most of the are Apple users, so from this view it seemed like a good choice.
With the stainless steel chassis of the iPhone 12 Pro, my needs for design are satisfied.

However, I feel still bad for betraying my very own principles, and I am reminded of that every time I can not make my own choices about the phone I bought. While I am going to run this phone until it breaks, I am, albeit not constantly, following all news on Sailfish, as I still believe this is ultimately the right way.

I found no solution to all the small things that are missing in iOS, but right now I value some big things like voice assistant and widespread integration into banking a tiny bit more.

In the past I had the feeling this question was not too well received, and hopefully my still being here and being interested and responsive about it shows how much I truly value Sailfish and the design principles behind it. However, it also shows that just having the right ideas is ultimately not enough to keep a user base. I wish there would come a time where the Sailfish design language will carry over into physical devices again.

Sorry to not being able to be more helpful, but I didn’t find the entirely right thing for myself either, so I am not in a good position to give advice.

Marc

5 Likes
#38

Thanks for replying Marc. I wouldn’t take the replies to your original post too personally - some of them seemed unreasonably hostile to me, for no obvious reason.

At the moment I’m thinking of the Volla phone, which seems like it should soon (or maybe already does) support the latest Sailfish. My problems at the moment are more Brexit related than technical - it seems impossible to import anything into the UK without arbitrary and unpredictable fees being added to the base cost.

Graham

1 Like
#39

navit also has TTS and works great on my XA2.

#40

nope. I did try with 3.4 but had constant crashes. so i switched completely to /e/ on volla and on a second pure gigaset

#41

Ah, so you’re not running SFOS on any volla? My volla is 3.4 via Ubports and stable and my GS290 4.2 flashed over Volla 10. The latter is also stable but has a couple of bugs.

#42

nope. at the moment i am sfos free, for the first time since 5 years.
the dual boot was a nice idea and would help one on a community port missing alien dalvik.
but it did prove super unstable. would run smoothly and then suddenly freeze.
freeze needed a restart and that sometimes corrupted the dual boot.
so no fun (this is 6 month) back.
maybe was the sdcard, who knows.
i did not re-check with the adb manager guys, but at that time, they just posted that sfos may corrupt your installation
well i learned more about sideloading then i wished to.
so i flashed with e on gigaset and volla.
not unhappy at the moment.

#43

Ok, got ya. I’m on the reverse trajectory at the moment. But I think neither of us was too happy with VollaOS?