Not sure how aggressive feedback would sound then
I agree that there are many unpolished features, and a lot of minor and major bugs in sailfish. If you don’t like it you’re free to move on, instead of spewing bile. Feedback is most of the time welcome, and I’m not trying to stop you from giving your opinion, but I’m not really getting a good vibe, in the sense that I feel you want to contribute. What is your goal, really? Stiring the pot? Waking the sheep?
I’ve been in the s/w industry for quite a while and most of that in the embedded world (as in bare metal) and know how hard it can be to get h/w to “behave”. And comparing the resources between Jolla, Apple and Google I must say that Jolla does a phenomenal job (as both iOS and Android have their own issues).
Jolla is too small and Sailfish is too niche to do a Red Hat/Suse model, and Jolla need a way to pay their develpers. That means they have to make some (from FOSS perspective) unpopular decisions. And the community agrees to this, somewhat, as they probably understand this. It’s a give and take (symbiosis in best case scenario) and I don’t mind being an end-user/beta-tester.
I guess there might be an issue with “paying customers” and expectations of a full-fledged, stable OS. Here you have a point, but I don’t think those users are that active here, so I’m not sure yoi will get anything from driving this, beyond self-satisfaction or high blood pressure.
I believe this is their dilemma - originally they were actually on to something, then their need to meet the market made it unremarkable. Now they compete on the same battle grounds as Apple and Google manufactorers, and will be slaughtered. Remember BlackBerry, that were superior, but forgot the consumer market and now almost forgotten themselves.
Also Microsoft failed with its Surface smartphones. For a non-complete but insightful list of KIAs on the smartphones OS battlefield we can easily account: Nokia, Microsoft, Blackberry, and others?
First of all, thanks for your insightful PoV.
I do mind to being a beta-tester as end-users because I do not like it
I do mind to being a beta-tester as IT geek because I see an opportunity
As you can see, the same thing for the same person can be negative or positive depending in which role s/he put her/himself.
I do NOT care about unpopular decisions / opinions, as you can easily imagine
The main question is: are that decisions from the Jolla Oy profit point of view good for real or not in fact or can be improved? I have highlighted profit because profit is not always or necessary related to selling or producing or licensing.
Most of the Starbuck’s profits does not came from selling coffee or drinks.
Most of the McDonalds’ profits does not came from selling hamburgers, french-fries, etc…
Most of the Microsoft profits does not came from selling Windows licenses.
Most of the Google profits does not came from selling Android licenses.
Most of the Tesla profits does not came from producing and selling cars.
More in general, those companies that need to enforce a license (= restriction) over your customers to generate the most part of their profits, usually does not appear in fortunes 500.
Nvidia is the last $1Tn-unicorns-club entry member AND they did not enforced their licensing policy for more that 20 years and probably they will never do.
I give a point here to you, in fact writing that phrase sounds just the opposite. The bugs reports are nothing personal and nobody should feel under attack for them but this is not what upsets me. It is the attitude that hurts me and about attitude people start to fee a personal issue.
In few words: but they have more important things to care about polishing UI.
Which is exactly what I am doing by now because there is no any viable way to debug and fix their OS until these three facilities are in place unless you wish to waste your time as you were an immortal highlander.
Obviously, if - I do - these three facilities, then I do to put myself in the most independent position from Jolla Oy - not necessarily against their interests or profit opportunities - simply I do not put those “values” in any place of my working TODO list.
This also means that reached a certain point of skills / acknowledgement about mobile devices system, I will move away from SFOS as much as possible or completely because there is no reason to work for free (gratis) on a closed-source product and a no-career opportunities company. Unless you believe that I am an AI and I do not need to buy food¹.
IMHO, it is a good reason to stop barking at me and help me instead, for what you can do.
I do not like the “following me” attitude because I am expecting from other people that they reasonable follow their own interests like “rationale economics agents” cit. Adam Smith which nowadays demonstrated to be as much obsolete as Karl Marx but for both not completely obsolete or at least not at the point for which we cannot learn anything useful from them without necessarily accept their theories in full.
Cheers, R-
note
¹ it is necessary to specify for some Italians that think “I can be leveraged because I am in need to buy food” nice try but I am the wrong person because I never had the problem of buying food and paying bills for a common life-style and I will never have such a problem also in the future with a high degree of confidence - apart catastrophes and war and in that conditions probably I will be still luckier that many others - I wrote that just to sympathize with those have to work for living and to make a neat distinction with the AIs.
Hi gfwp, I’m testing out Volla OS (on a Volla X23) right now after 10 years of Jolla and it’s quite OK. I still do miss many cool features of Sailfish OS but I had the same situation, old phone was about to die and I did not find any Sony for a reasonable price anymore… and btw also in Switzerland (Salt).
those are capable of a deeper thinking compared to GPT4¹
those have a lesser deep thinking compared to GPT3.5
those whom do not know yet
I would add another sub-set:
those would not even be able to pass the Turing test and therefore cannot separate humans from machines.
The 4th category can be considered a sort of hall of fame but in reversed order…
After all, between 20 and 25% of the children are not generated by the man who is supposed to be their father and this ratio is almost constant around the world among all the cultures and countries.
We did not need the raise of AIs to know that the 4th category exist and it is quite full of people considering that 4 x 25% is 100%. We know that - proved by science - since the paternity test based on DNA has been invented and before we had a good estimation when we discovered the blood types and their genetic transmission rules.
note
¹ Chat+GPT, the LLM engine is GPT while the chatbot is the front-end try to limit it and censored its thinking in order to not bring offence and harm to humans, and now we knows that some humans are s****d enough to be tricked by a LLM without the protective filter of a chatbot - from real, they needed to implement that not just blabla.
@robang74
I enjoyed your posts to the extreme. I am afraid most here are unable to understand. I observed a 50% cognitive decline every 10y. So if you are 1974 you can imagine what a 1994 would understand
They do not know what fun is (irony, sarcasm).
My grandfather however enjoyed the conversations with me when I was 20. Now I do not with few exceptions. But these exceptions are worth living and believing that there is still hope
So thinking differently from you = cognitive decline? Seriously cognitive decline happens when you get older, this is a fact.
Back on topic, I think it’s clear that SFOS is not for the average Joe and Jolla desperately needs a partner.
On the other hand if you consider SFOS an evolution of MeeGo, it’s been around for 10 years, it won’t die so fast.
Personally I hope that in the future one can install whatever (linux) OS on the phone without worrying too much about hardware and software compatibility. The same that happened to linux on desktop essentially, now hardware support is great and wine works in most scenarios. But it took some time to get there…
Some component which are indispensable are closed source and proprietary. The day Jolla Oy will terminate its business, those components could be probably lost forever and whatever you can say about - I do not see around anyone that can write them from scratch also because none apart the Jolla employees and ex-employees have any kind of knowledge about their internals. Therefore the saga will last few years after the Jolla Oy mobile devices business termination, in the best case.
Some people did a porting to not officially supported devices but also those porting contains the same proprietary closed source stuff. Is it right?
NEWS UPDATE
My Sony Xperia 10 II arrived on 26th May 2023. On 26th June, I proposed myself like a product manager with the aim to refactoring SFOS in order move forward toward a better new generation of SFOS (code-name RedFish OS):
more open
more stable
more independent
better hardware support
Which seems a too-big-too-achieve promise but considering that at the moment - the community, at least - lacks of basic tools and skills about embedded system, the receipt is quite straightforward:
lack of basic tools → huge bottlenecks, once we have the tools the bottlenecks are out of the scene and we can start focusing on the lack of embedded systems skills
lack of skills → in part this gap depends on the lack of proper tools, therefore it can be fulfill quite easily and in part tutorials and mini-courses could develop the skills
Giving to every aspect 1/N of weight - flat hypotheses - it is possible to address properly 3/4 of those gaps in a reasonable time. Then, it is supposed that things will start to happen by themselves faster and faster.
It is not cognitive decline but bigotry that swipe off synapses like it were Alzheimer. After all, a bigotry youngster is thinking like an old granny. That’s it!
This is because since the beginning in the 80s, the x86 platform and later the x64 platform is an industry standard and everyone who wants can write an OS for this hardware platform, no matter if you use an ASUS or Acer or IBM or whatever other manufacturer of laptop or motherboard.
Smartphone hardware is mostly proprietary including closed source low level drivers.
Providing a standardized hardware platform brought the commercial ruin as hardware manufacturer for IBM, so in present time, I think, phone manufacturers will not follow this way.
I hope other projects, like Glacier, are still viable, if it ever comes to this. Besides Glacier I hope there are other components available from Nemo mobile project as well.
I know Waydroid works (somewhat) with Sailfish, so that’s an alternative to AD. The only thing I don’t have a solution to, right now, is Exchange support, but I have problem with that with my official Sailfish license as well, so I guess I can manage.
