Serious community failure - forum reporting

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#12

I too had a very informative if sensitive comment just hidden.

I’m a psychotherapist with 25 years clinical experience. Two of the people I’ve talked to in PMs come across as certifiably schizophrenic ie in DSM V and I don’t talk to many people here. One was talking about murder. I reported him to Jolla, not easy to do and they don’t have time to deal with such things.

I’m not talking about JGP666, have not talked to him and leave the ‘satanic’ comment to people’s interpretation.

The nature of Sailfish means that it will attract cranks and lots of them aren’t very good socially. They often come across as egotistical but might well be insecure, even paranoid.

Attacking them isn’t actually helpful. If you empathise, ask them questions, you’re likely to get a better response and they may well out their ‘craziness’. In an ideal world, such people would be accommodated and helped to get better.

We actually live in a world that doesn’t help schizophrenic people much. Instead, it actively encourages pretty notable delusions. Such places can make schizoprhenic people feel more normal. I would strongly recommend clamping down on political talk re: Russia, but there are other obvious topics to do this with: US politics, Israel, COVID etc.

Another possibility is volunteer moderation. I would expect this problem to get worse over time

16 Likes
#13

Yes, but it has a different meaning and function, so it would be nice of the (:heart:) would count countering the flagging.

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#14

I would assume highly liked post has pretty low chance to be flagged into oblivion and vice versa, but that is just me.

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#15

I’ve had the crazy-cray-crays flag a couple of my posts. IMO, putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum isn’t a great plan, even if done accidentally by automated mod-bots. Curing mental illness is not the foundational purpose of this forum, AFAIU, and is definitely beyond the scope of my training and experience.

2 Likes
#16

Optimism always drove the world forward… :rofl:

#17

You got by yourself the loop of your reasoning. Therefore, I am trying to give you a different point of view: your are not forced to read everything everyone writes and moreover, you are not forced to write an answer or judge/rate their posting.

Ok, some content can be awful - and also unlawful - but I did not saw anything like that here. Just opinions, we might like or not. On the other side, some technical post might be wrong. Correct them - if you can - or just ignore them. OK, some technical content can be dangerous - and also unlawful - but I did not saw anything like that here. Just suggestions that might work or might not work, like SFOS.

Minimal action principle: less is more.

#18

A very good suggestion - Not only here, also at the pub on Friday night. Try to empathize with people instead of correcting them, instead of answering to win an argument. Ask them questions to understand them not only their argument and not for judging them.

Said on the other words, stay focused on the “people” side of the conversation. Follow this suggestion and practice it for a while and one day or night - suddenly - you might end-up into a sentimental relationship possibly also with a human female… :rofl:

Or said in another way: accept that your referring human model is just a fictional character and in the real world he would probably get diagnosed inside the autism spectrum.

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Long live and peace! :wink:

#19

No, that is not the case: The two mechanisms (flaggings an likes) are unrelated.

1 Like
#20

Unless, you had spoken with them in real blood-and-flesh person, they could have been also an AI or trolls. Video call, also does not grant anything about it. The competition in faking people on video calls between AI and human mimic is just begun and every of the two sides are reinforcing each others like a human chess-master playing chess with a learning DeepBlue. We - humans - have four thousand years of theater experience at our side but AI are damn faster.

I have a great consideration of people with a long-term experience. However, I also know that their experience is a huge cognitive bias, whatever they are aware about it or not. Experience is a tinted lens: more experience, more tinted. I did not like very much “Awareness” the film available on Amazon Prime, but I found insightful the last 20 minutes. Unfortunately, I do not know if someone else can get the same perspective just watching the last 20 minutes, only. Because I know (the whole film), I do not know (about the last 20 minutes, only). :wink:

By the way, returning back to the incipit. We live in a historical moment in which anything we cannot touch in person might not exist at all. Welcome in Wonderland, Alice! :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

Edit: for a Wonderland quick trip, check here… :rofl:

#21

I fully agree with you (also with the rest of your post. This is exactly why I am nagging around. I want to have technical, factual opinions and not the personal thoughts of anybody. This here is not a psychotherapy. So usually I would ask someone to stop polluting the area with thought not related to Sailfish. I think it is not too much. The other part is the self righteousness, but this is completely different topic (not related to Sailfish :slight_smile: )
This was similar on the Debian UL until we rebelled and they cleaned up the place. Now it is a bit boring, but very technical and focused.

BR

BR

1 Like
#22

Pros and cons… :wink:

#23

Quite the understatement. :wink:

Accommodating everyone who can be helpful is what I’d like but we are obviously very limitied.

Encouraging people to have a healthy attitude to the forums, to SF, to coding etc is something we definitely can individually do.
But who is going to?

I think volunteer moderation is the way forward. Moderators can work together to understand where people are at, why they’re not coming across as they want to etc.

The troll flagging could be limited to people who have eg < 1 in 20 flagged posts, but this would need the guy who created this nice forum software. Heck, we haven’t even been able to get a Dalvik subforum in the last few years.

1 Like
#24

I’ve been thinking for a long time over such situations (I am not sure I mentioned Game Theory). I remember in private chat with you, I mentioned enlightenment.
The only way to improve something is to educate the people. The wrong assumption (especially in the West after WWII) is that with rules, we can have conditions to improve as society when in the same time we invest less and less in education (especially the quality).
So my solution (and I do not know if it works) would be not to find another algorithm that will undoubtedly fail, but to have people who are experts in argumentation and can educate (off forum) participants in such disputes, thus reducing the quantity and increasing the quality. In normal life we have the judge. Unfortunately this is also not good enough.
Can AI help? Some years ago there were attempts to formalize speech and meaning i.e. Prolog, but it turned out it is also not working as expected. Why? There are many reasons, but at least one of them is crucial - the soul … or something we can not exactly explain if you wish. To make it short it is “you” - everything you experienced, thought etc. makes you think in specific way and take specific decision.

Conclusion: Trough education and examples, we can set up some rules that qualify a post and there should be discussion around why someone flagged the post or not and if it should be hidden or not. Community can vote and a judge can decide in case of further discussion.

We can elaborate on this if someone is interested. I do not think it is appropriate to go into details here

1 Like
#25

improve individuals. Because society is the product of individuals, then improving society.

Unfortunately education takes time and education without the sense of responsibility does not go towards the right goal. Moreover, education cannot do anything against malicious actors.

On the other side, without education and social respectability, we will get back to the dark ages. Therefore, it worth to spend few words about social responsibility.

  • ubuntu, I am what I am because you are what you are

or said in other words

  • the individual is the product of the society and the society is the product of the individual.

Finally, it is a good time to talk about “community”, another abused word to identify a group of people that have nothing in common apart a specific interest - which is not even specific and it is not even in common - because those are using SFOS have completely different needs and expectations.

In this sense the “community” is more similar to those have the same god, e.g. Thor, while the rest of the world pray at Zeus or Mitra.

the short comings of the democracy are well known and by the way, nazist party was elected.

However, if you are fascinated by these topic, I suggest a good book:

IMHO, it should be a book that every European civilized citizen should read, at least one time in their life. I strongly disagree with those who are believing that we need a book (just one) as key reference for interpreting everything else. A lot of people in USA, believe that the book is the Bible. A lot of people in Italy, believe that the book is the Vangelo. Forced to choose one book among all the others, like Galileo Galilei was forced to speak against his own belief, I would chose the book above linked as the book for being the key reference. This just to give you an idea about the huge leap forward Popper offered us in writing that book.

Conclusion

These two post, contains everything this “community” needs to know for the immediate in order to deal with this forum properly.

Everything else is just out of the budget {time, money, skills} and it could be just theories or opinions with no hope to have a practical or positive outcome.

#26

I am not a fan of “Open Society” it is like another manifest and we know what Soros is doing with it, besides it is part of a bigger chess game.
Without being too philosophical we could agree on some basic rules that everybody accepts.

Here I agree with your conclusion. Lets try

1 Like
#27

Karl Popper born 1904 and the “open society and its enemies” book has been published for the first time in 1945. George Soros born in 1930 and did not managed to escape Hungary before 1947. Therefore, it is impossible that George Soros influenced that book in any way.

However, we might think that a billionaire which gives away a lot of money

As of October 2023, he had a net worth of US$6.7 billion,[9][10] having donated more than $32 billion to the Open Society Foundations,[11] of which $15 billion has already been distributed, representing 64% of his original fortune. Forbes called Soros the “most generous giver” (in terms of percentage of net worth)

can be a master of the puppets, at 93 years old? Instead of, are others people receiving that money doing something else than it were supposed they do? Please, grow up!

Soros was from a Jewish family, survived to the nazist repression and escaped from soviet invasion. Two things would not surprise anyone: 1. that at the age of 93 years is donating a large part of it fortune and 2. the destination of his donations. In fact, the destination could have been just two: 1. help Israel to settle down in Palestine or 2. fundraising the idea described by Karl Popper because it is the ultimate and most evolute way to avoid nazism and soviet communism happen again. Are you surprised about #2? I am not, at all.

A charity - whatever charity - always attract interests and people who wants to manage the power. I know because in 10 years of LUG Genova, I saw a lot of that and we were a very small and minimally founded charity. Imagine a charity that received billions and is going to receive much more billions, what kind of center of interest is. Huge center of interests.

Fortunately, here there is not a fucking cent - therefore, please - keep your feet on the ground. I wish to underline, that actually you are striving to manage the moderation of this forum and in the same time - I, the major troll of this forum - I am helping you while you are trying to convince me that Soros had an affair with Popper about Open Society. Please… :wink:

You all got lost between the bedroom and the bathroom, he escaped from nazists and soviets before being 18 years old! It is not a plot, it is the HUGE gap between being smart and being not. :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

#28

I think we’re being flooded by [redacted], ever since March '22 or so, for obvious reasons.

I put some people on ignore now, feels nicer. But I don’t like the outlook of where this is going.

As for active moderation, I’d be more than happy to help out.

4 Likes
#29

Which is the reason because they sent me to help you all - I joined the forum on 24th May 2023, on 26th arrived the Xperia 10 mark 2 and in the meantime Jolla Oy asked for re-organisation deposited on 21st June 2023 - but after a while (about 10 weeks), I joined the trolls because they are on the right side of the history. I am sorry for Jolla. However, I had a great time, indeed! :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

Coincidences do not exist but timings. :wink:

1 Like
#30

I didn’t mean I assume them to be part of same mechanism, but rather there to be strong inverse correlation between their usage on same post within this community. I don’t read all posts on these forums, but I don’t recall ever seeing mass flagged post with more than few likes on it.

#31

Except you got it wrong with Soros, I am a big fan of you. What’s wrong with Soros I can tell you in private the next time we come to Italy :slight_smile:

And take it easy - I think Jolla is going the path “Go woke, go broke!”
I hope not, but it smells like this.

1 Like