Re-organisation of Jolla company

General
#287

Translated by Google Translate:

“Together with the Jolla community, we are going to develop and take Sailfish OS into the AI ​​era. The new company has already agreed on more than EUR 10 million in funding for the implementation of the new strategy,” continues Saarnio.

Ok, but the lack of evidence I wrote about it was about willingness of having a business plan and someone that provide funds to cover it. The bold verbs in the translation might lead us thinking that everything is done but in a business announcement, that words sound a little different.

We wish to go with AI - but Jolla Oy has no any experience about that technology - together with who? The community? We know that the SailFish OS community is just a fan-club. Even if someone that was here developed something - it is light years far from the AI technology.

The second part is about “already agreed”. I have no doubts that they have already agreed to receive money but this does not mean that who spoke about money is going to give such money. In other words: who is receiving a promise of €10 million is going to agree about many things


If they had received the money, the terms would be had different. What they did - probably - it is about buying some assets that they consider valuable key-assets into others company. I do not know their automotive business but the most valuable asset, I would guess it is the customers portfolio. About SFOS, I would guess that it is the Alien Dalvik technology/licensing and the UI source code.

Are Alien Dalvik technology and UI source code absolutely valuable? Nope. There are alternatives about running Android apps on GNU/Linux system and Alien Dalvik is not in the top of the list nor it has the chance to reach it even after a reasonable kind of development plus the SFOS app framework is broken by design and cannot scale up in any way. The UI source code even lesser because open-source alternatives exists.

Hence, Alien Dalvik and UI source code is just assets valuable to being able to claim that SailFish OS is something central in that strategy “bringing AI into smartphone market”.

Google? Microsoft? Apple? Amazon? Are they sleeping on that topic? I do not think so.

So, what is that “unicum” that can attract €10 million here for entering in a market already populated by giants? Something innovative? But innovation is not about SFOS, is about having a peculiar vision of that market and the tech skills to transform the vision in a plan, a plan in actions, actions in long-term sustainable projects, and marketing.

Again, nothing we have seen in Jolla or SFOS in the last decade. Or, we might have seen it, in this forum, recently

but, in that schema of actions, the SFOS is not central but a gym. Moreover, it is a corner case among various options, not even the top but just the first. We start hard to prove we can wrestle the hard as well but not necessarily we wish go into an extremely competitive market with such a choice.

Well, this is just show or noise - depending the PoV.

By my side, in these months I have contacted two global companies one deeply involved in AI but with a different technology and another one deeply involved in Android-like smartphones market. One has the technology to train AIs the other one has the technology to run that AIs on smartphones.

The high-level management of one company professionally know me. In the other company, they did not but an executive business presentation introduced by less than 200 words, rarely get un-noticed. The reason behind this is a kind of magic. Something like a priest receiving a letter in Latin, 100 years ago. He might not be acting upon it, but he read it because it is written in Latin.

UPDATE

To have a glimpse about “energy form community” means, just take a look at this post:

and in particular the repository roundup section. Among the contributions there are also a README text file translated into markdown format and its content updated. A change overlooked since Sept. 25th, 2013.

Then being back to “Together with the Jolla community [
] take Sailfish OS into the AI ​​era” claim.

I am NOT proud of being listed in such repository roundup section but insulted: a suggestion about converting and updating a README file can be considered a contribution? Com’on!

#288

Hmm Phones + AI . This sounds like a phone that was running SFOS 8 / 10 (?) years ago already.
We all know how that went ( I dont recall the name, there was one model made).

#289

Please do not take this the wrong way, but when you compare stocks and investing in companies with casino and gambling you do not know what you are talking about. From the legal point of view, you might be that you are right (and I appreciate your clarifications cause they add value to the discussion), but from economic point of view it is clear you do not understand stock investments. Plus here we are not talking about a public company but a private one, where the biggest shareholder(major ? - Jolla never said how much percentage Rostelecom was owning, and here let’s not forget Boris Krasnovsky the “independent” private investor), was not given a chance to defend. Still you didn’t explain how could Rostelecom pay the debts? Tell us the mechanism how they could have bring money to help Jolla to pay the debts (keep in mind that Russia was decoupled from international payments). Just a simple question. So, please tell us how could the russians defend their position? How could have they paid the debts? Cause to me, it looks like you are avoiding the question as @jameson did.

1 Like
#290

Or - in this specific case - s/he knows in very such details what s/he saying and s/he trying to tell you
 :wink:

#291

Indeed, you got listed in some repository, am I wrong?
Anyway, you’re pretty controversial, still I don’t figure it out if you like SFOS or just hate it ahhaha
ah
 ciao! Sono italiano pure io

1 Like
#292

I do not hate or love tools! :rofl:

Simply, SFOS is not viable in any sense.
Obviously, I was not aware of it when I have arrived here.
After, I was interested in the “particular” social dynamics in this forum.

The show is the show, after all.

Re-organisation of Jolla company - Off-topic discussion
#293

I’m really wondering if Robang74 is real or just a creation of AI to fool us :slight_smile: Sometimes I very much like his comments but sometimes I don’t.

About Jolla’s reconstruction, it perfectly makes sense and time is now to compete with other privacy focusing mobile OS’s and focusing on SFOS plus the great UX. I just asked ChatGPT and at first it missed to mention SFOS but at a second trial, it was able to list it, screenshot attached.

688×1020 38.4 KB

2 Likes
#294

I confirm, if you insist asking usually the chatbot gives you the answer you like to receive. Unfortunately, the answer extracted torturing the chatbot has no value (we may argue that others answers are valuable or not, anyway), and it is biased by confirmation search-by instead of the correct confutation search-by.

Under this point of view, I act like a chatbot
 :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

If a text writing machine is able to fool you, then you are the “problem” not the machine. :wink:

1 Like
#295

The only real differences between a public and a private company are (a) that for a public company the shares are publicly traded on an exchange, so are more subject to market fluctuations and influences, whereas for a private company they are not, (b) the statutory company reporting requirements are different (more onerous) for a public company than they are for a private company, and (c) its almost impossible to value a private company properly without privileged access to inside information, whereas for a public company such a valuation is much easier to achieve (e.g. via the share price).

Whether a company is public or private, if it is a limited liability company which is limited by shares (as opposed to limited by guarantee) then the process of investing by buying shares and the future payment of dividends against those shares is the same, so it makes no difference. The risk to your investment could be greater in a publicly traded company for the reasons stated above, but so could the rewards also. So, although my analogy of taking a risk by placing a bet (investment) on a colour of a roulette wheel, in the hope of a big win (a healthy dividend payment, or perhaps a healthy profit if you later sell your shares for more than you bought them) isn’t perfect, its accurate enough.

As far as I am aware Jolla Oy only revealed that Rostelcom was a minor shareholder, nothing more. However, as you say, Jolla Oy was a private company - so unless that private company chooses to tell you who the shareholders are, what they paid for those shares, how many they bought, etc, then it is none of your business, or mine. A member of the public (you, me, or anyone else on this forum) has no automatic right to know such details.

How do you know that he was not given a chance to defend his position? Do you have inside information that attests to your claim? If he was a shareholder and board director of Jolla Oy he would have had the same rights in law as any other shareholder or director of the company. If you say he lost his seat on the board then how do you know it wasn’t for one or more of the legitimate reasons stated in my last post here:

You’re implying that something underhand, or even possibly illegal, was done to get rid of this person, and you’re doing it in a public forum. If I may say so, that is a little unwise unless you have evidence to back up such a claim.

If Rostelcom was a shareholder in Jolla Oy, a limited liability company, then as a shareholder it had no liability for any of Jolla Oy’s debts as explained in my post here:

If you are asking how Rostelcom could pay off Jolla Oy’s debts, then the obvious question would be ‘Why would they want to?’ Why would you put more money in a company that’s just about to go bankrupt? That’s a bit like betting on Red at the roulette wheel when you know in advance that the ball is going to land on black. Remember, by this time they already had the rights to Sailfish and turned it into Auorora (which from the posts on this forum, seems to be far more developed than Sailfish now) and Jolla Oy is a minnow compared to the size of Rostelcom in terms of development resources - so what would they gain by pumping more money into a failing company?.

But, if they really did, one way would be for Rostelcom to buy more shares through a rights issue by Jolla Oy; another would be to enter into a contracted funding agreement with Jolla Oy. However, seeing as Jolla Oy, and most likely its creditors as well, wanted to divest themselves of part ownership by a company with close connections to the Russian state (because this relationship was preventing inward investment in Jolla Oy from other funding sources), the other majority shareholders and creditors would be unlikely to agree to such approaches. Its also possible that other considerations like sanctions, Finnish company law, etc would have prevented such actions even if Jolla Oy had wanted to pursue them.

I have no idea of the mechanics of moving funds across state borders when sanctions are in place against one of the states. Its not relevant anyway for the reasons stated above.

If you say so. As with almost all lawyers, I often get this type of reaction when I’m giving a client either news they don’t want to hear or a legal opinion which does not fit in with their pre-conceived ideas, so I am not offended in the least - only curious. Curious because it was you who asked me the questions. If you know more about the subject than I do, then why did you ask me?

4 Likes
#296

Usually for private companies there is a public registry in which company shareholder composition and balances are deposit and publicly available (or after having paid a small amount of money as tax) and annually updated. Not providing such data or false data is considered a felony, or in the best cases an administrative charge. Usually means - in all the countries adhering WTO - as far as I know.

Here is intended less than 50% which can be 1% or even 49% as long as exists someone with 51% of share.

Let me put this in another way. Why someone has to put money in a company plenty of debts when there is no any valuable business opportunity? Imagine that for you SFOS is worth 10M because you are in love for it and you are rich. This would change the balance of the company but nothing about their revenues, nor their profitability and nothing about the long-term. It means that in few years, you have to push even more money, an again, again, again.

#298

Just a small addition again

Jolla Oy was a private company - so unless that private company chooses to tell you who the shareholders are

Interestingly, the Finnish corporation law mandates that each private limited company needs to have a list of its shareholders available for public observation at the company HQ.

The Rostelecom’s current indirect share is(/was) about 32 %, as communicated by Jolla in January https://twitter.com/JollaHQ/status/1614992230359367681

3 Likes
#299

Who says they have to? They might have wanted to; its called enterpreneurship and its hard, because 9 out of 10 enterpreneurships fail.
How many times have you failed so far, if you dont mind me asking?

#300

So, quite a substantial interest, but not a controlling one. Thank you once again.

#302

If we want an OS without backdoors, spyware and duopoly we should strongly work together with russian, chinese and even north coreans!

2 Likes
#303

You know the definition of madness? Doing the same thing and expecting a different result, right?
Well, its not correct. That’s the definition of hope.
Doing the same and not expecting a different result, that is the definition of madness.
And that’s what I can see here. So I am out from this futile discussion :slight_smile:
You should too @robang74 , there is nothing to save here because nothing wants to be saved,
especially not by you. Go home. Enjoy your life. Install android.
Bye.

5 Likes
#304

History is repeating, so you should ever try again. Except of may be feed the trolls.

1 Like
#305

You missed out the bit where you first started pontificating on what was what (wrongly). I actually warned you about being so arrogant and then you told them they were lazy.

Surprise surprise, nobody wanted to help you and you started slagging off App Support and saying Sailfish has no future. You’ve been politely and repeatedly asked why but, of course, there never was anything wrong with them. You just wanted to take your frustration out on the community.
You even tried to persuade Poetaster to stop developing.

You’ve just become more and more toxic. What do you think Jolla and the community should do with you?

9 Likes
#306

I have got the entity you are talking about on my ignore list for ages. If there was an increase in toxicity I am impressed. But as long as people feed the troll this forum is only bearable for me by taking a few weeks off from time to time.

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#307

A post was merged into an existing topic: Re-organisation of Jolla company - Off-topic discussion

#308

I did the same a while ago. The forum has a nice feature for that. A few clicks and troll is no more. Why waste time on someone who is clearly only interested in causing strife.

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