Performance Under Par

Devices
#1

I’m curious to know, does everyones device (that isn’t the Xperia 10 III) lag in its operation? Not always, but is just generally slow, and when you overwhelm the device it might simply stop until it’s worked out how to dump its RAM.

I thought maybe it would get better with updates, refining the software, but generally I find the performance on my Xperia 10 (first gen) underwhelming and it has me going back to Android far too often. I haven’t tried it without having Alien Dalvik installed, as to whether that’s what slows down the OS, because I find when I’ve used Sailfish on ported devices the experience is so fluid. Unfortunately, I require Android, however, for work emails and whatnot.

For instance, I have four applications open, I then went to open the Clock app, and it took 18 Mississippi’s before I could use it.

Any suggestions around this, or is the consensus generally that it’s high resource operating system, and Jolla should be working to have this running on higher spec’d devices?

Another random question - I can’t get onto Facebook via the native browser, it comes up with ‘Unable to connect’. It’s been an issue for quite some time, is there an easy fix for this?

Thanks for your time.

#2

I use a Vollaphone, a GS290 (equivalent) and an Xperia 10ii. The 10ii is certainly not as performant as the other two.

I’d say SFOS is pretty snappy, although the introduction of sailjail has slowed down OPENING apps a bunch. I think these are optimizations that fell by the way side but should be doable.

The browser is also not stellar, but neither is web.

I often do image/video work (leaning on either python or ffmpeg) and get quite speedy results (comparing my stopmotion app, for instance, with a similar app on a friends iphone 11x which is a better phone).

I think the Jolla team has too many irons in too many fires to do some of the usability work. But I have hope. Bug triage (thanks to @thigg, @pherjung & co!) have been helping focus things…

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#3

Thanks for your comments. Is android support on only the Xperia 10 II? Or do you find it quite snappy as you’re working without Alien Dalvik?

One issue I have with sailjail is that you have to accept all permissions as opposed to simply restricting the apps access to those permissions like the latest Android has. What ends up happening is that the app simply asks for all permissions and if you want to use it you have to accept them all.

And, yes, the browser is what kills my experience. I generally try avoid apps and use web based versions, but this is difficult with the browser.

I have been eagerly waiting for improved performance, but maybe I need to learn to do away with Android Support until I can get a 10 III, if I want that improved experience.

#4

only officially supported devices do have android support.
so volla / gs290 can not have alien dalvik
poetaster may have waydroid installed. but you can not compare that with alien dalvik
i assume that waydroid needs more buttery.
but doesnt that maily depend on how you did setup your android apps regarding notifications / updates … too ?

#5

If the app doesn’t have the permissions set, you 'll see the the complete list. It doesn’t mean the app needs those permissions, you just see the default (complete) list.
Maybe it would have been better if Jolla implemented it with a text like ‘permission is not set, see app description or code for more information on permissions needed’.
More info on Sailjail: https://blog.jolla.com/whats-up-with-sandboxing/

#6

I haven’t tried android on the GS290. I don’t even have it installed on my licensed 10ii :slight_smile: But I’m the curious sort, so one day …

#7

Only a few apps that are not updated still show as needing all permissions (in reality they did not specify). Not to mention that “all permissions” is still a lot less than what apps technically had access to before.
And with (as far as i’m aware) just about zero apps that (explicitly) asks for permissions that they don’t need, let alone abuse - how big is the need to pick and choose really?

As an app developer i’m quite fine with that confused users don’t revoke necessary permissions and then come complaining that the app doesn’t work.

The browser is really pretty good, but it seems that unfortunately the older phones just can’t quite keep up with what it needs.

Can I revoke app permissions?
#8

I use a ported device -and probably one of the fastest chipsets SFOS is available on- and yes it doesn’t feel nice. There is the general slowness of the UI which is an animation speed issue (which Jolla NEEDS to fix by changing a variable), design choises that somehow make it feel slow (ie how the apps open) and i’ve seen lag here and there.

In general i wouldn’t say SFOS is a polished os. But jolla is small and sometimes issues are in areas where they can’t do much.

And yes the browser is bad(ish). It is far better than it used to be but still lacks a lot compared to normal FF.

#9

@poetaster, the lack of Alien Dalvik might explain the snappier experience. Good to know your experience.

Thanks @rgrnetalk and @attah for the sailjail info. I can appreciate the issue around developing with the permissions in mind, as you’ll need to display errors in the app to say that those permissions haven’t been granted for you to do that task. I just quite like knowing that you can disable location access, as an example, for an app that doesn’t actually need location to function, and you don’t have to worry about that app tracking your location, as opposed to having to to accept it just to use the app. One thing I’ve found nice on the Android 12 (which I find is starting to look more and more like Sailfish with it’s ambience type look and swipe functions) is that it’ll display a green dot in the top bar to tell you that something is accessing your camera.

Another reason to get an Xperia 10 III I guess, once I can afford it…

Thanks, @ApB, for your comments. It’s good to know it’s a general experience and not simply me not running my device as best I could.

Don’t get me wrong, I completely appreciate Jolla for maintaining and keeping sailfish alive in what is generally a brutal industry, and for all the people on this forum who also help progress it and help people like me who struggle a bit with tweaking their devices. Since buying Jolla 1, I’ve really just been waiting for the day where I can use this as my daily driver without feeling like I’m missing out on something, which, at the moment, really just feels like performance.

#10

I challenge you to find even one such native SFOS app.

#11

That uses location access? There probably aren’t any outside of map apps, which is the great thing about sailfish, but this doesn’t mean it won’t happen one day. Location was just an example permission, however.

#12

That requests any permission without needing it, the more sensitive ones in particular… and for nefarious or subversive purposes especially.
I very much doubt it will ever become a significant issue, and that is a great thing.

Technically you can actually revoke permissions, just not from the GUI.
But the ideal case is to never have to do that (because apps are well-behaved), don’t you agree?

No need to ask for infrastructure that is in fact a coping mechanism for the shit-show that is Android.

#13

Does this assume, however, that no one will develop a native app that is designed to collect user data?

I agree with you. Am I getting something wrong, where, native apps can’t be designed to collect, store and send user data? I imagine that’s not the case, as otherwise there wouldn’t be the need for sailjail. I appreciate developers in this community are incredible for what they do, I’m just playing devil’s advocate in a way to learn whether sailjail is in fact working to stop unnecessary permission access and therefore potential data leakage if that’s what someone wanted to achieve with their app.

Please excuse my ignorance if what I’m saying is incorrect.

#14

That’s not what i’m arguing. Certainly native apps can do something to that effect. There was even some controversy around a flashlight app early on.

Arguably the need for jailing is indeed lower here compared to platforms overrun with crapware and spyware. Some would even say it is unwarranted and unnecessary. I think the principle of minimizing privilege is a good default.

What i’m trying to say is that we would be better off calling out and not using any apps with dubious permission requirements, should they ever appear. We are already pretty much at zero, so keeping it that way should be very doable. If an app was even trying crap like this, what is to say it doesn’t have a dozen other problems too? Just avoid them and be done with it.

Therefore, i’m arguing that asking for pick-and-choose controls come with all of the drawbacks of users shooting themselves in the foot, and no real use-cases.

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#15

I completely agree, that would be the best result. I guess I was thinking about if the operating system took off and a large amounts of apps were developed, that this idea might not be possible. It’s certainly positive to hear of the current security of the app pool available.

Thanks for the patience on this.