Interest to create a cooperative

General
#53

Thanks for asking me. I don’t know though if I can give good ideas on this topic (I mean funding oriented developments). Here is my personal wish/todo list regarding the calendar application, but anyone is welcome to amend it:

  • implement a week view (under way), mainly dealing with the close source parts, all OSS middleware is enough for it already,
  • implement a search functionality, requires both to work on the OSS middleware (add Sqlite commands in mKCal, expose the results as a QML model in nemo-qml-plugin-calendar), and in the close source parts (create the search UI),
  • implement multi-reminders, requires mainly to work on the OSS parts (the QML bindings are not ready for it at all), but also on the close source parts (adjust the UI accordingly),
  • implement reminders for read-only calendars (like the birthdays or shared calendars), requires to work on mKCal which was not designed for this at all,
  • expand recurring event handling, like being able to add new occurrence on specific dates, edit the exception list date… This would partially solve the issue of missing copy/pasting of events, because most of the use cases for copy/pasting implies actually to add a new occurrence to an existing event (and possibly edit it for minor changes like start time or location). This is also a mixed job of exposing this in the QML bindings and create the appropriated UI.
  • fix the problem of not being able to change the notebook after event creation. This is a limitation of mKCal (quite tricky related to UNIQUE constraints in the DB and how deleted events are stored and expose to the sync plugins).
  • implement a “apply this ambience during the event” functionality (like applying the silence ambience during a meeting). This is a pet project that I have for a long time now, but never prioritised it enough for completion. This is both dealing with UI and OSS backend.
  • implement a way not to get alarms for selected calendars (convenient for shared calendars when you don’t want to get the alarms of the other person). This is simple to add the switch in the OSS middleware, but it would require to adjust the UI (calendar or settings ?) to expose it.
  • expose sync logs to the user so issues but also movements (which new events have been downloaded yesterday from the server for instance) are easier to track. This is mainly done now for CalDAV sync. I’ve a demo UI for it (https://github.com/dcaliste/harbour-logbook). But it’s quite crude and further support should be added for other sync plugins like Google one, but also emails… This is mainly dealing with OSS bits.
  • rework mKCal so multi databases could be possible. Like that, applications could use a dedicated database and not deal with the system one. This is purely OSS oriented job.
  • implement/complete task support. This is half OSS (check sync plugin for compliance with task handling, mainly CalDAV one is ok, but I don’t know for the other ones, but also completely rework QML bindings so they can handle tasks), half close source parts with changes in the UI.
  • rework the QML bindings so they more closely follow KCalendarCore objects to avoid duplication of code between the two projects. This is mostly OSS work. It’s quite a tricky task though, because it implies to work with objects coming from mKCal which are synchronous and expose them to QML in an async way (this is currently done by duplicating all relevant information in dedicated structures).

These are ideas about developping the calendar. I don’t know if they can be used to write a funding proposal or be part of one… I can provide more technical details on each item if necessary.

Since this thread is about fund raising, please keep discussions about the features themselves in dedicated thread (existing or new ones).

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Sailfish Community News, 20th October, Community
Funding new development with EU grants
#54

Sometimes it is the start of an enterprise that makes profit. I remember in the seventies consumers could be a member of an organic food coöp.Some of them grew and changed into ‘normal’ shops.

#55

I share your opinion. Jolla and the dev community are working on a product. Why? For whom? If you really want to make an alternative to IOS and Android you have to realise that the product must be acceptable and usable for most people. You have to set a goal and develop a strategy.

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#56

I’m not sure I want that: Jolla would also have to implement the Bundestroyaner by EU regulations. Atm Jolla might stay under the statist’s radar.

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#57

You are awesome dcaliste, my HIGHEST respect. I’d fund you any time, your knowledge for the community is absolutely fantastiv
<3

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#58

Thanks many bunches! I’m going to try to articulate (in this case, quote) a number of projects on the Funding page from @hildon . The impression I have from discussion and superficial research this qualifies. Perhaps @hildon beats me to it :wink:

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#59

As it is touching mapping stack, 2 & 3 are of great interest to me. But I also think that they can have a major impact overall for FOSS. Obviously, we would need some kind of legal body to make it happen. @poetaster was proposing to discuss it already a while ago - sorry, still haven’t picked up that topic with him.

#60

I’ve had some personal communication in the direction of an initial legal entity, but think it should be put up for discussion when we can formulate the (numerous) options more clearly. A cooperative (I’m only familiar with the German variants). A foundation (bound capital). A simple corporation (there are 3 limited forms in Germany with various levels of initial capital required).

I’ve started doing recruitment :slight_smile: In any case, the mapping infrastructure is also a case study for many similar ‘shared’ resource cases. Maybe we could gather examples? One obvious one is weather, and another public transportation.

#61

Sometimes I’m charitable. Perhaps even often. Generally that has some self-serving motive involved (the psychology of the ‘good’ samaritan?). In any case, what we’re talking about here is finding concrete mechanisms to achieve well defined goals. Well, we’re trying to elucidate the goals and the mechanisms.

As for earnings from SFOS, well, I think I’d rather be the owner of a game franchise like Fortnite than the platforms it runs on. I know the ‘intellectual property’ angle that sticks to jolla is ‘irritating’, but if you compare it to apple/google/etc it’s still a much more ‘open field’. I’m of the opinion that we can bring intellectual capital to bear to change jolla. now @olf will convince me otherwise :slight_smile:

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#62

How about a conference to discuss this?

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#63

I’ve been searching for the past weeks how we could achieve such organization. I found a tax expert and a notary that helped me picking the best legal form. In Austria, the easiest way to have people and organizations (IE: Jolla) to associate themselves together would be an “association” (in German: Verein).

Austria is basically ran by them as if you want your child to do any extra-curricular activity, have a garden in Vienna or train your dog… you need to join an association and pay a year/quarterly/monthly fee.

Based on past topics discussed here, bellow are the reasons why an association :

To create an association is very simple and straightforward (link in English) :

  • Find at least two persons
  • Write the statutes in German (I got a template already)
  • Send those + required documents to the Associations Authority (either the central police station or the district authority)
  • Wait either for a positive reply or no reply 4 weeks after sending the docs see paragraph “Deadlines” of the English link

Required documents are: full name, correspondent address, date and place of birth and copy of the statutes. Couldn’t be easier.

Questions you might have:

  • What about tax deduction from the donation ?
    • This would require to create a “fundation” (in German Gemeinnützige Schtiftung) which requires more initial founders, 50k€ and needs to be approved by the Ministry of Finances.
  • But wait, don’t we have to set all the projects we want to support first in the statutes ?
    • No, in the statutes we can/have to write a more general status : “support and promote the development of SFOS and distribute the material under LGPL license”. Then, we can have monthly meetings were we decide how to spend the funds. (@pherjung talks about it here and for ideas/priorities there is @dcaliste comment )
  • Only SFOS and not all FOSS projects ?
    • There are many already existing organizations supporting FOSS projects, 0 supporting SFOS ones. In my opinion, we need to focus on something.
  • What if SFOS disappears one day ?
    • Well it’s (mostly) open source, isn’t it ?
  • Why LGPL license ? After people/corporations/GAFAM/BATX can fork and sell apps we financed !
    • True, but so can the initial developer to make a living. Maybe professional developers have arguments against it, it’s worth discussing about it. Doesn’t need to be in the statutes.
  • Hiring people across borders for an NGO ? (question asked by @poetaster )
    • Not hiring the person but paying for a service instead. Like you would pay a freelancer.
  • Should we wait for November for this to start ? (question from @poetaster)
    • Actually there is, the 8th of October a meeting in Vienna, and we could start even before that !
  • What do you mean by associating ourselfs with Jolla ?
    • Jolla could be a member of the association if it wanted too; so could other companies/organisations upon approval of it’s physical members.
  • What are we waiting for ?
    • At least one other person, preferably in Vienna so I don’t have to send the documents by the post office for a signature. But if it’s further I’ll just do it.
  • Why not a cooperative ?
    • We would pay a lot of taxes.

End remarks, I will post translated statutes soon, need to find the easiest way of doing so, so you can collaborate on it. Ask questions I didn’t think about/forgot replying. Don’t be afraid to PM me.

Can’t wait to see this ongoing !

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#64

If tax deductions are important and/or you want an initial low-effort legal structure, it might be worth looking into the option postmarketOS and others are using, i.e. the https://commonsconservancy.org.

The process is explained here. Basically, they provide services for free and open software foundations, including hosting infrastructure for wikis, etc; all based in the Netherlands.

#65

It does solve the problem of taxation for people living in the Netherlands. But in creates a new issue regarding membership and voting rights.

Personally donation tax deduction is not important.

#66

Not only for people living in The Netherlands.

I hope this information can be helpful:

#67

Indeed you are correct, the CJUE statuated on this matter and EU donation can be tax deductible. I’m looking on what’s the procedure on it because it’s seems to be cumbersome, by using the Transnational Giving Europe platform which itself doesn’t list Commons Conservancy.

I still think this isn’t the most appropriate legal form we should choose. Other Commons Conservancy organizations seem all to have a board of directors that itself plan the development.

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#68

Nothing can save the browser. It needs to be replaced by FF official. Ie. pay someone to maintain it -like RH pays someone for ff wayland- and sort out all the shortcomings of the OS (compositor etc).

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#69

A “Verein” does not have to pay taxes (=theft) because a Verein MUST NOT earn even 1 cent. Otherwise they put you in a cage. I’m quite educated about Austrian “Vereinsrecht”, I run some and am part of many.

#70

I think you are quite aware of this @apozaf. But for the others. Austrian and German “Vereine” are different. For tax exemption in Germany a “Verein” would have to be “gemeinnützig”, sort of like “approved non profit” to avoid taxes. I am not a lawyer, though and Switzerland differs again.

(And I see taxes a bit different, but respect your view on that. :wink: )

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#71

Thank you very much!

The relative ease of starting a “Gemeinütziger Verein” in Germany doesn’t differ so much. Points 1, 2,3, 4, 5, 7, basically the same. 8 is a bit different, but changing a ‘Vorstand’ can be done as the Statutes specify. In practice, it’s whoever has the time :slight_smile:

As you’ve elaborated Foundation is far more complex (about the same capital requirements, etc) and as for all you’re other points, I could get behind all of them, even if I tend to be a GPL purist.

Given how similar the situation in Austria is to Germany, I don’t see any issues on that side. I’d be very happy to get behind a non-profit association (er, a club ), a ‘Gemeinnütziger Verein’.

In any case, it would be great if we had at least ONE such legal entity. I would join in some capacity.

#72

This isn’t exactly true. A non-profit (take netzpolitik.org) can earn a million euros a year. It must, within some reasonable limit, spend that money for the purposes of the Verein. In practice, that can mean taking donations and paying staff, making things, planting trees, you name it. It is also abused as a tax dodge.

My point being, as long as capital does not accumulate, you can earn it to considerable sums. Sometimes, if you become politically dangerous, you may have your ‘non-profit’ status revoked (see campact in Germany recently). Doesn’t really matter here, though.