No Autofocus on Xperia 10 III

Applications
#31

Advanced Camera has 5 autofocus modes. 2 of them do a quick zoom-in/out first, meaning the shot is taken 1s later. Manual mode just takes the shot.

The camera will often sometimes focus on the wrong thing but that’s what the selectable autofocus is for.

The difference between Camera API 1 and API 2 may be relevant. I mostly use an HDR Android app called Snap Camera and it’s probably API 2. I also use Advanced Camera (native) for low contrast shots and am testing Open Camera to see if it’s better at properly-exposing darker shots.

Snap Camera uses a slow autofocus but it’s taking 3 shots so that’s OK. The manual HDR processing screen crashes Android’s Camera function (but saves the shot), so that’s my main problem at the moment.

#32

If you are using an android app with api v2 and I am using the standard sailfish camera with api v1, and if there are indeed different bugs between the two api versions, then we’re comparing apples and oranges.

#33

Of course, this is merely my very own private report based on having personally used SFOS over Android 13 for some 4-5 weeks and not having experienced any problems, while at the same time really enjoying no trace of echo during calls and no display tint/color banding, both of which were troubling me on Android 11. I can’t say for sure or guarantee that there aren’t absolutely any issues as I certainly haven’t tested everything, but in normal daily use I didn’t encounter any problems. But of course as long as Jolla doesn’t officially recommend it, using it is obviously “at one’s own risk”.

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#34

yes, like you say, apples and oranges. just to reiterate:

  • it is just one bug, and it is only in camera1 api. this one bug affects sailfish apps and android apps on sailfish, AND android apps on android, including stock sony (it is baked into the sony binaries, and is only fixable by sony)
  • HOWEVER, the vast majority of android camera apps (both in SFOS-app-support and in android) use camera2 api (or use both but default to camera2), and therefore do not have this bug.
  • unfortunately, upgrading to android 13 does not fix this bug in any way (at least for me, but i am willing to bet that David ALSO has this bug, when using camera1 api)
#35

Easy bet for me to take and the second time someone’s claimed telepathic abilities for my camera usage. Shall we call it $100 and you donate it to Jolla?

All of you complaining about problems are being vague. You are the ones with the problem. I am not obliged to fix them. I am trying to help and I’m not sure I have the patience.

You haven’t said which apps you’re using. You haven’t said which bug you’re talking about.

It was said quite clearly in the thread that the apps don’t use the infrared sensor. Therefore, noticeably substandard autofocus behaviour is to be expected.

Are you saying your bug exists on a fresh installation with Android 13 & the 11 AOSP binaries, ie without installing any other software (bar possibly Advanced Camera)?

#36

this is a known bug, confirmed and tracked by jolla. also, it’s impossible for you (or them) to fix, as it is in sony’s firmware, so you can rest easy in your obligations. (the workaround is to use camera2 api, and jolla devs and community members are actively trying to do that instead, which will make this bug irrelevant)

yes, exactly. the bug exists on actual android, not just on sailfish. the bug, to be precise, is that the camera1 api will not focus while there is more than the slightest bit of movement in the viewfinder. this makes focusing very slow or impossible in non-controlled environments like concerts or action shots, and can make you select the wrong focus level even in a normal setting.

to reproduce, open jolla-camera (or AdvancedCamera, or OpenCamera with camera1 api selected, etc) and move the camera in small slow-ish circles (so that a large percentage of the viewfinder is changing over the course of, say, a half-second). hit capture while moving the phone, and the camera will not immediately capture a photo. you can delay it for literally minutes if your circles are smooth. when you stop the circles, the phone will suddenly finish focusing and snap a picture without having to touch capture again.
if you tap-and-focus, the white circle will not become green until there is no motion in the viewfinder again. once its green, you can take pictures quickly, and any pictures you take will be at that focus level.

EDIT: note that in AdvancedCamera, to reproduce the delayed capture, you must select auto-focus.
OR you can select manual-focus, and then tap the screen, and see the focus delayed. also, the movement does not need to be large, just constant and smooth. if the screen is still for a half-second, it will focus

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#37

i did though, and pasted a link to it Camera refuses to take picture on 10 III (focus hangs)

saying you likely have a firmware bug on hardware+firmware that we both share isn’t telepathy, especially when you said you mostly use the camera2 api, and triggering this bug while testing the camera app can be difficult.

now…as for android13 fixing this firmware bug, its possible that upgrading to a particular version of android will fix this issue, but upgrading to android 13 did not fix it for me. it also didn’t seem to improve my low-brightness screen color though, so who knows.

1 Like
#38

Firstly, thanks for the clarity. The OP’s problem is apparently not what you’re talking about. It was indeed an installation problem. Other people might have other problems.

But the problem you’re talking is a standard problem with edge detection autofocus. It’s probably not a bug but a failure to implement various Sony focusing mechanisms. Fingus already talked about Laser Autofocus in comment #8, but that’s apparently for low-light shots. Is it working?

There’s also a Sony feature called Predictive Hybrid Autofocus which may or may not be useful for sports. Sony claims that it is. I’ve seen no evidence that is working.

The RGB-IR sensor probably isn’t implemented either.

The problems with edge detection are much less apparent in Continuous mode. The latter seems to use the zoom-in/out autofocus once and then keep the same focus for later ‘manual’ shots. It is a much more obvious problem on macro mode. [There may also be something Snap Camera does to change the behaviour of Advanced Camera but I haven’t reproduced this as yet].
It’s also possible this is a reduced problem in the latest version: “* Continuour-focus fixes from @llelectronics” (sic)

It obviously also depends what you’re shooting. Most of us don’t shoot sports from a close up position or take photos of something following an O-shaped path.
As a lifelong amateur photographer, I have also learned to keep the camera still.

The problem exists in Snap Camera and is arguably worse there but I only use it for 3 shot HDR, which is useless with fast motion shots or a moving camera, so it’s fairly irrelevant.

I don’t imagine this zoom in/out autofocus is anything to do with Jolla but rather Sony’s own implementation of a backup function. If so, that’s not going to get fixed in anything other than a later Android version. But the lack of implementation of some of these features might.

Your bug thread is also a misuse of the verb ‘to hang’ in in title. In computing terms, something hanging very much means the program needs to be closed (and often, the system rebooted). “Delay” is the word you’re looking for.

Camera refuses to take picture on 10 III (focus hangs)
Slow Camera Response on xperia 10 III
#39

first off: no, hanging is when a piece of software freezes and does not respond to input…like how you can press capture-capture-capture and it does nothing because the focus is hanging.

also, more than just gui applications can hang. individual threads in a daemon process can ‘hang’ and stop processing work loads. all ‘hanging’ really means, in practice, is that something has become non-responsive. (note that i did not say the jolla-camera process hangs, but the focus hangs, which is true.)
i used the term intentionally, to emphasize that it can be minutes or hours or millenia before the camera responds to your button push.
i DO see your point about the word maybe implying that the top-level gui process is what is freezing, but i think what’s happening is clear from context, and it describes the salient feature of the bug well.

i assure you, this focus bug comes up ALL THE TIME in practice, even with a tripod. it does not require the camera to move at all; “the o-shaped path” i described was to make it easy for you to reproduce this bug, since you hadn’t seen it in practice.
for example, on a tripod, i have been unable to take a picture of a concert stage, a computer screen showing the game centipede, a room with a light flashing on and off every half second, and a person waving their hand slowly in front of their face.
also, when i say ‘unable to take a picture’, i mean, the app WILL NOT allow me to shoot it until it finishes focusing (this part is at least partially solvable in sailfish, since it is not a problem in AdvancedCamera on manual focus mode).
i tried to take a picture of a fountain with moving water for over 2 minutes, and it would not focus. i didn’t have a tripod that day, and i’m not a surgeon, but i was holding the camera pretty dang still.

yes, this bug is obviously in the relative focus algorithm of the firmware, probably in edge detection or quantization (maybe a differential threshold set too high), but it could be hanging anywhere in the api method.
it is very likely NOT however, simply sailfish failing to utilize one of the provided focus methods in the api, as, again, it appears in every camera app that uses the camera1 api, even on stock android, AND it does NOT appear on Xperia 10 II devices, which i believe has the same set of focus features as the 10 III.

heh, i DID mention this in my previous posts here, one or ten times. this is not a sailfish bug at all. it is fully reproducible using pure android, on a fresh stock sony android phone, with just OpenCamera (allows camera1 and camera2 apis) installed as additional software.

oh, whoops! i read the several other people commenting afterwards describing THIS bug, and thought one of them was the OP. thanks!

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#40

you know…from the way you’re describing this as a very minor issue, like more of a missing feature than a critical camera bug…i’m starting to think that maybe you DON’T have this bug, which, if true, would be VERY exciting.

are you able to reproduce jolla-camera not taking the picture, after you press the button, for, say, 10 full seconds while you gently move the camera, on Xperia 10 III?
if you are NOT, then maybe you somehow DID solve the bug with android13.

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#41

I had a quick Google for the problem on stock Android but could find nothing. Do you mean you personally had the same problem on stock Android?

I do wonder whether your autofocus is much more sensitive to motion than mine. Mine is no worse than was on my XA2.

Whilst I can recreate the O movement problem, I seriously doubt I’d have a problem with a fountain. I just took a photo of a running shower on macro mode (Adv Cam) to test. The autofocus maybe took a split-second longer.

I have hardly seen the problem in years and, herem it’s very easy to counter when it does happen – just stop your hands shaking. I would expect to be much better at this than most people but still.

I have little idea how this would be a worse problem for you, particularly as a tripod would eliminate camera shake. It would point to a hardware problem, maybe firmware. Did you get your phone new?

I have not upgraded to Android 13 yet. This is a relatively new installation on Android 11, downgraded, on a 2nd hand 10 iii.

#42

this problem is 100% ONLY on Xperia 10 III.
i have tested it carefully on each sailfish-x device that i own. it does not happen, at all, in any way, on my:

  • Xperia X (though i haven’t tested that one in awhile)
  • X compact
  • XZ2 compact (running community sailfish)
  • XA2
  • Xperia 10 II

it is a very specific bug to the Xperia 10 III, and not a missing focus feature in sfos.

to be clear: you can recreate the O movement problem INDEFINITELY, on jolla-camera yes? where the camera NEVER takes the picture, for as long as you move the phone, and not just a second or two? (because even on my XA2, it takes slightly longer to focus if the subject is moving, but never more than a full second)
if so…then i don’t undestand how you can take a picture of running water, because the problem is the same (edge detection never completes, or something).
you did mention macro mode, which as far as i know, jolla-camera does not support, so maybe you are confusing it with AdvancedCamera?

yes, i bought my 10 III new. i have no problems with camera apps running the camera2 api, and i take a wide variety of photographs in many settings, so i would be very skeptical of it being a hardware issue.

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#43

Yes, I’m talking about Advanced Camera. I rarely use the Camera app and considered deleting it.

you can recreate the O movement problem INDEFINITELY, on jolla-camera yes? where the camera NEVER takes the picture, for as long as you move the phone, and not just a second or two?

Yes. And I remember it being like this on my XA2. But that was 2-3 years ago. Maybe it got patched? Like I say I never noticed a significant problem with it and took thousands of photos.

if so…then i don’t undestand how you can take a picture of running water, because the problem is the same (edge detection never completes, or something).

You can’t take a photo on macro (Adv Cam) at minimum distance of water running in a 1cm stream from a tap? That was so easy, I set up the shower head spraying upwards.

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#44

jolla-camera is the name of the default Camera app in SFOS. when i say ‘jolla-camera’ i am referring to this specific application, not any camera app running on native sailfish.

on advanced camera, of course i can take a picture of whatever i want on macro, or on manual focus.
try taking the same picture in jolla-camera, or on advanced-camera but ONLY in auto-focus mode, and see if it works.

it wasn’t like that on XA2 for me, or XZ2c or Xc or X or on my 10II, ONLY on 10III.
i have my XA2 out right now and just checked. no matter what i do, jolla-camera takes a picture when i press the button, within two seconds at most.

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#45

There are still people who use their XA2 on here. If you see any ask them if they have the same behaviour.

As I implied, maybe Jolla hacked a fix for the XA2 but not the 10 iii. Do you have any other 10iii problems? I had a couple on my XA2 that were seemingly due to a corrupt installation. My only other 10iii problems are the seriously buggy fingerprint sensor and the Wifi rarely working unless it’s active before starting Android Support (I think there’s a fix for this).

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#46

the only other 10III specific issue is the camera lens ordinal issue, which jolla worked around by simply turning off the telefoto lens and the wide-angle lens. removing the workaround and using opencamera on camera2 fixes this issue better.

aside from these two camera issues, i have no issues on 10III that are not also present on 10II

#47

I have not followed the discussion, but my problem is hardware. And it is not a broken camera.

The reason autofocus on my 10 III stopped working is that there is dust or residue on the lense cover.

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#48

Then you should take it back to where you bought it and have it repaired. The 10 III is supposed to be watertight. If dust is able to get in, so is water, hence the product did not meet specifications. Dust gathering is not something that happens overnight, so even if they try to claim certain warranty period you can counter that it must have been broken for a long time.

#49

Maybe I should try. I have never dropped it and I have a good plastic case for it. However, it was bought “new” on eBay because I could not find a good price anywhere else. Problem for me, I think is that warranty tends to be broken after unlocking the bootloader. But I am unsure if that also applies to hardware problems.

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#50

No, the only ‘risk’ is that it is rumoured (if you have an official source please link!) that they may charge you extra for the ‘service’ of putting back android and relocking the bootloader. If you do that yourself before sending it in it’s fine. When I had to send it in I just reflashed android and relocked the bootloader and didn’t have any issue.

In a sane reality it shouldn’t matter what software is running on your phone if the hardware water seal is broken.

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