I'm sorry for being rude

[eson]

I’m old, disillusioned and disappointed in the present.
I believe that Western democracy has deliberately turned into pure fascism. Mostly controlled from Davos (WEF).
I really don’t want to be bitter, but the present gives me no choice.
Even in my own country, which is described by many as the stronghold of democracy, it is not possible to speak freely from the heart. Laws have been created against freedom of expression and I have great difficulty relating to these laws.
Many of you who are significantly younger than me, probably can’t even relate to what I’m writing here. You simply grew up in the socialist environment that has characterized the last 3-5 decades and for that reason you may not even be able to define libertarianism. The only political outlook that puts individual freedom above all else.
Let me educate you.
Libertarianism takes a stand only on the question of the right to defend oneself, our loved ones and our property. Everything else is left to the individual. It’s freedom for real.
Of course, we understand that certain rules and laws are necessary. For example, we can’t be allowed to walk around and kill each other.

So yes, we need some controlling laws that can prevent pure anarchy, but we don’t fucking need a government. In order to organize society in a democratic order, we need nothing more than a well-qualified administration. A bunch of well-paid, well-trained administrators… nothing else. Government should be left to the majority of the people. That is DEMOCRACY!

Thank you and goodbye!
I can’t stand it anymore, with the brainwashed Western population, so I hereby resign and will not come back.

/eson

[emva]

I… Emm.

Fascism oppose democracy and human rights, and it promotes militarism and violence.

I do not see that in the Scandinavian countries, sure, a focus on having more money to the military is “hip and trendy” these days, but not due to any leaders in Sweden, for example in Sweden the spending has not changed too much since the 1970s, there was “suddenly” a jump after 2014:

Military spending

I hope i will see you posting here on Monday, when you are sober

[eson]

@emva

Fascism

I shall make one, and only one, exception to ‘goodbye’.
You should try to redefine the word fascism.
In my dictionary, it means politics and capital in symbiosis, and that, in my opinion, is what the EU has become.
Militarism and violence is related to dictatorship, I can give you that, but not necessarily fascism.
.

[olf]

@eson

I’m old, disillusioned and disappointed in the present.

I believe many (here at FSO and in general) concur with at least two of the three aspects of your statement.

But I do not comprehend how you draw the following conclusion from this:

Thank you and goodbye!

What does FSO proper or you reading and posting at FSO have to do with that? I really fail to see a connection.

Your concluding sentence nicely transports this dichotomy:

I can’t stand it anymore, with the brainwashed Western population, so I hereby resign and will not come back.

So (rephrasing to check if I understood that correctly), “because you cannot stand […] the brainwashed Western population”, you “hereby resign” (From which role?) and “will not come back” (To where: FSO, the “Western population” etc.?).

Can you shed some light on the relationship you see between “the brainwashed Western population”, FSO proper, and your participation at FSO (additionally: you “being rude”, see below).

P.S.: The title you set for this thread (“I’m sorry for being rude”) is misleading, IMO: I never perceived you as being rude, which covers IIRC more than a decade of reading your postings, comments and issue reports.

[eson]

@olf

Can you shed some light on the relationship you see between “the brainwashed Western population”, FSO proper, and your participation at FSO.

No, I can’t really. I’m just so fed up with people that I can’t diverse any more. It’s not about FSO, It’s not about you all, at all. It’s just me giving up on humanity. Please, don’t take it personally

[Mister_Magister]

What… the fuck is this post

[olf]

@eson,

It’s not about you all, at all. It’s just me giving up on humanity.

This is incoherent, because these two statements are contradicting: “you all” (in its broadest sense) is exactly “humanity”.

I can’t diverse any more.

I see that, and it worries me.
“I demand that you do distinguish between me and all the other idiots!”
You don’t need to start with that (again) today, but by tomorrow, latest.

[eson]

@olf

This is incoherent,

You are nitpicking and I will not give much thought to it.
Sorry, but you are definitely not a target. I actually like you.

[WT.Sane]

So you are done with resigning then?
Just asking.

[PeegeeTips]

@eson

Laws have been created against freedom of expression and I have great difficulty relating to these laws.
Many of you who are significantly younger than me, probably can’t even relate to what I’m writing here

Totally agree.
I really do.

But for the rest of it… i’m not sure what purpose it has or why it is here…?

[ckonte]

@eson

I’m sorry for being rude

Don’t be sorry for something you didn’t do

@eson

Libertarianism takes a stand only on the question of the right to defend oneself, our loved ones and our property. Everything else is left to the individual. It’s freedom for real.
Of course, we understand that certain rules and laws are necessary. For example, we can’t be allowed to walk around and kill each other.

Your definition of freedom is flawed. To defend your loved ones or your property you might harm someone else or their property. This is sometimes a well hidden behavior, in fact you should know that the wealth of the country where you live is built at the expense of other countries. But still somebody calls it “freedom”.

@eson

So yes, we need some controlling laws that can prevent pure anarchy, but we don’t fucking need a government. In order to organize society in a democratic order, we need nothing more than a well-qualified administration. A bunch of well-paid, well-trained administrators… nothing else. Government should be left to the majority of the people. That is DEMOCRACY!

It could work only if the whole World would play the same game, but your idea of government (yes because even a bunch of administrators would be called “government”) is very naive. There’s something called geopolitics, you can’t live confined in your garden and ignore the fact that all nations pursue certain goals.

[meolic]

@eson

to defend oneself, our loved ones and our property

You see, people policital expectation are much more diverse and different as you could expect. For example, for me your idea stoped here: “to defend our property”. I do not believe (in some abstract way) in private property! And I believe that there are many others thinking about John’s world: “Imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can…”. The only reallity we have is diversity, … maybe this is why I am here, to support SailfishOS!

By the way, @eson, as many others here, I generaly like to read your comments here. You are still welcome!

[petervandeninseln]

Dear Eson, as someone who rarely writes but often reads in this forum, i got to know you as a constructive and polite person, sometimes outspoken, but never rude. Thus, i hope you don’t leave this community. After all, we don’t need to have the same political opinion here, as we share the same interests we have as users of SailfishOS and that is what brings us together.

[x2s]

You should read up on the Paradox of Tolerance.

[WT.Sane]

On the other hand it is far better to leave than to fill this forum with larmoyant right wing rubbish about defending your property and the good old days when men were still men, women were still women and small furry creatures from Alpha Centaury were still small furry creatures from Alpha Centaury.
This bullshit about an idea of socialism that shows nothing but political incompetence and the glorification of the «good old days» says only one thing: I am weak and frustrated. And @eson is not right. Especially not because he is old. Being old does not mean being right and is no excuse (sometimes a reason) for acting all dramatically about being frustrated. We all are sometimes.

I am old.

And one thing I kept alive is staying curious and seeing beauty. That said I now get my old bones out on my old motorcycle and look for beauty in a grey spring day in Nazi infested Germany just a few hundred kilometers west from war.

Looking backwards makes sense. As long as your moving forward.

[Fuchur84]

Just a short question: This is a Sailfish OS related, technical forum. Do you really think this is the right place for that kind of discussion?

Anyway: In many/most western democracies you can more or less speak pretty freely from your heart – people just do not have to like what you say / do not have to agree and can do the exact same. And if a certain critical mass of people have a different opinion to yours, they will of cause shut you out of that circle of trust they have to each other.

That is NOT the same as not being able to speak your mind. You still can do that, but you will have to live with the social consequences. A dictatorship for instance would just kill you (or equal).

And democracy vs dictator ship (meaning reign of most vs reign of a single person) is something different than socialism or liberatarian. You can have a more social or a more libertarian democracy, because you practically can not have a fully ideal democracy, like you can not have any other kind of reign in an ideal form anyway.

Now let’s do a little mind game here:
If you have the belief, that you should be allowed to shoot other people in the face because you want to – what should happen now?
The reality in a democracy is / strives to be: The society will prevent you or punish you legally for that. This is not a dictatorship at all but normal in any kind of society.

And since not killing people but enslaving them isn’t “socially excepted” neighter, here it is the same. Let’s go on… what about robbery? What about burning down property? The list goes on.

Play the game through: Somewhere there needs to be a cut off when to punish you and when not. That one is called “the law” / constituation / rights and in many cases pretty much defined on paper or by judges.

And in the end the reason you can not do many of those things is, because you are (hopefully) not living in a double standard society if everything would be ideal.

If you are allowed to kill other people, you limit these same rights you are proclaiming for yourself for other people. Whenever you are doing that or at least doing it in a more or less strong way, you are (hopefully) hindered from it by the law enforcement.

I do not think that is unfair in any way. Reality can be, but this principle isn’t.

Now of cause, the reality is a different thing and there are a lot of different obsticales and so on preventing us from the ideal form of democracy, but the truth is: You can not get to the ideal in a group/society where that many people are involved.

Still I think in most countries of Europe and a couple others we are close enough to the ideal, that we can say we are in a “practical” democracy.

Democracy is by definition not “my opinion is the most important so please all obay to it” (which often is the root of these kinds of posts / comments) but by definition it is the rule of the many. Most people who write stuff like that are the once who want a dictator ship, but of cause they want to be the dictator and do not understand, that only one can be the dictator by definition, meaning that 99.9…% of the people are NOT going to be the one who is really happy.

[leon]

I follow such points of views academically quite some time now. And everytime I can identify some sort of misconception of the term/concept/ideas/etc x or y (insert here your headlines), first. Second, most of such hand-signals and finger pointings are coming from entities that have a lot of freedom. The concept of a western state/government is to allow everyone live there lifes without stepping on other people’s toes and to protect and secure this form of society. The mentioned “…ism” is like all others “political/non-political” concepts - they are theoretical concepts. Means, they never will work in a pure fashion for all.

[olf]

@Fuchur84

Just a short question: This is a Sailfish OS related, technical forum. Do you really think this is the right place for that kind of discussion?

Well, sailors never actively prevent(ed) such discussions, hence “why not”?
^{This is expected, because Jolla primarily relies on this community’s self-censoring fostered by Discourse.}
Actually, this thread bears far more constructive reactions than most other “political threads”.

[Kea]

I think age has nothing to do with it. Perhaps I am the oldest person using a Sailfish device, yet I am not discouraged although I have to admit that contemporary circumstances are depressing. Libertarianism always causes disappointment. Societies, especially the bigger ones cannot without governments. Democracy isn’t about majority only, a grown up democracy protects the rights of minorities too. Laws are necessary to prevent that liberties of one don’t harm liberties of another. It’s always balancing. Furthermore, democracy means coping with different opinions. We are equal and also different from each other. If you are tired, you could take a leave and consider to come back later.